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160 tire fitament...4.25" or 5"

258K views 278 replies 120 participants last post by  wsmc549 
#1 · (Edited)
I think this has to be one of the most asked questions, do I use a 160 on a 4.25 wheel or go with a 150 ?? so I decided to profile both tires with picts to show the profile differences....

The tire is a Pirelli race rain, 160/60/17 set at 24 psi, the first pict has the 5"/160 combo at the top of the pict. The second pict. has the 5"/160 combo on the right side of the pict.

If the wheels had slicks on the them the differences are alot more obvious. Yes, some MFG's make a slightly narrower 160 and some actually are a bit wider, but you get the Idea......

I do have more picts If needed....and YES the tire is on backwards....:twofinger
 
#3 ·
I just got a 160 pilot for my XR. I havent put the thing on yet, but i took a tape measure just curiouse, and measured from the bottom of the sidewall to sidewall and got 4 3/4 inches....i think when i squeeze it on my 4.25 inch rim it will be really rounded over:headshake:headscrat
 
#4 ·
The 160 on the 5" looks just right Brian. Perfect. It'd work on the 4 1/4, but it's way too pinched. Having the cut part of the tread curl way over to where it's vertical with the rim is not good. I'd be leary of real lean angles in the wet with the 160 on a 4.25. A 150 on the 4 1/4 would be good and actually work better than a 160. :)
 
#5 ·
Hey Brian - I am looking at putting a 5" CBR wheel on my berg. Just starting to think about how much to offset the wheel to minimize chain rub. If you get a chance would you measure the distance between the left swing arm and tire, as well as between the chain and the tire? Thanks
 
#9 · (Edited)
Steve....I took a micrometer to make sure my axel was perfectly straight before measuring....sooo here is what I got...

Between the chain and edge of tire I got 6.3 mm, same side but at the lowest edge of the rim I got 29.5 mm to the swing arm.

the brake side of the tire I got 4.0 mm between the tire edge and the swing arm....between the lowest part of the rim to the swing arm I got 21.3 mm..... BTW the axel is 3/4 of the way towards the front of the bike.....(in the swingarm slot..)

So this exercise actually helps me as I just realized I need to adjust my spokes a bit to pull the tire over towards the chain abit as I seem to have more room...basically center up the wheel between the arm and the chain.....I haven't had any rubbing issues thus far.....
My KTM has the exact same clearances in the same places...so I will spoke offset both my 5" wheels....the 4.25" in the picts came with the bike originally so I kept it......I don't know much about fixed wheels but If I were you I'd get a few different spacer thickness's just incase the wheel is too close to one side..... BTW take the alloy frame off the chain block using the plastic only and use pan head machine screws with lock nuts placing the nuts on the outside of the bike...will help fit that 160 or 165 in between the spars....Hope that helps....:D
 
#11 ·
my bike has a 5in rim and i 170/55 slick, and i can almost see wheel on both sides of the tire at the same time. i dont know how you are running a 160 on a 5in rim unless its really wide for its measurements.

whats really sad is that when i get new tires, im gonna try and fit a 180 shinko tire on there, and i hope it works, because thats the smallest tire they make with the ultra soft rubber compound.
 
#13 ·
Slicks are another world toaster.:) Take off that 170 slick and replace it with a 170 treaded tire, from the same manufacturer, and you'll be rubbing something somewhere. Treaded tires are always considerably wider than slicks.
To each their own within the land of motorcycles I always say, and will fight to the death for it, but a 180 on a 5" wheel is probably only going to give you a big fat tire cool effect and nothing else. Sportbikes need the big meats for whole different reasons.
Generally, Best tire sizing for rims is;

4.25"-4.50" rim=150 to 155 tire
5.00" rim=160 to 165 tire(+ a few very special SM specific 170 slicks)
5.50" rim=170 to 180 tire
6.00" rim=190 to 200 tire

I have a 5.5" wheel, and the biggest tire I'll ever run on it is a 170. The Aprilla SXV 5.5 comes stock with a 5.5" wheel and a 180. And I've seen guys struggle on the track with that big-ass tire...weighs more, more rotating mass on the wheel, harder to transition back and forth...probably fine for street dutys, but IMHO, too much for the track.

Please don't tell me how Daryl Atkins or Benny Carlson rail with a 5.5 and a 180. There's exceptions to every rule and those guys are exceptional. Plus, if you ever get to talk to them, ask them how long did it take for them to get used to that big chunk of rubber.

For us mere mortals..,it's best to stick with what the manufacturers spent thousands of hours developing. They did it just for you.
 
#15 ·
Chase, your far from being a mere mortal:infrandom:D I think alot of the guys who "might" run such big rubber is beause they have 16.5 fronts, 6-8 mm offset triples which may also be dropped down 6-8 mm on the forks...Thanks for posting the sizing charts I was about to myself...:thumbup:
 
#16 ·
Do you want me to dig out my tire size chart again? 160 doesn't always mean the tire is 160mm wide (except for metzlers).

Anyway, there is another factor you are leaving out of the equation: sidewall flexiblity.
The case here is a rain tire, which you are most likely not going to get all the way to the edge of (in the rain of course) . Ever notice how a 19" flat track has a sort of "floppy" side wall and the tire is mushroom shaped? That's all part of the design. The sidewall squirms, and leaves more of the surface of the tread on the ground as possible, and is really the first part of the suspension.

From a road race perspective, the opposite is mostly true. Traction is rarely the issue and you don't want the sidewall to squirm, you want it to grip, lock solid and go.

So, the question is... do you want the sidewall to squirm or not?
 
#17 ·
Good gawsh Ron..,now you're confusing everybody!:lol:
Yeah we know 160 is not always exactly 160mm, that's why we say "generally" when it comes to sizing.

But the squirmy-sidewall objective comes into play big-time with ATV tires also.
 
#18 ·
Thats a good post. But a quick check of some tire web sites says that a 160 will fit on a 4.25"-5.0" rim typically with a 4.5" rim being optimum. I do agree that tyres need to fit the rim correctly as well as match the needs of the bike. But when you get down to the details(like whether to put your 160 on a 4.5" or 5.0" rim it comes down to preference. Personally I prefer a 160 on a 4.5" rim. I find the profile is too flat for my tastes on a 5.0" rim. That slows the steering feel down just a tad as well as limiting the grip at very high lean angles. But that is a matter of personal preference and you may have your own opinion about which rim size is best. The important thing to remember(other then it's funny to see a guy on a SuMo with a 180 or 190 on the back) is that the tyre must be sized to the rim as well as to the bike, with a bit of personal preference thrown in. I'll get off my soapbox now.
 
#19 ·
Hey Brian -
So fundamentally you have the rim centered between the swing arm and the chain. This is great info!

I am looking at milling the hub and cush of the CBR wheels so that the rim is centered as well. My big concern is how much I need to offset the rim. Compared to my dirt rim, I would need to offset the 5" CBR rim about 9mm (3/8") to the left (away from the chain).

I was concerned how much the 9mm offset would effect rideability. I was wondering if the offset would be noticable?

I assume you don't have any concerns? Nothing noticably different between left and rights turns?

Good tips re the chain guard/block. I will keep that in mind.
 
#20 · (Edited)
The only concern is not being able to offset spokes but to have a solid wheel and deal with spacers...:rant: Thats my only concern....


I've never felt a difference...I guess If you are running at much higher speeds RR'ing I'm sure it would be differnt...I have offset front wheels and never noticed a difference.....
 
#23 ·
Goosedog runs a 160 on his Husky with a 4.25" rim and likes it. Right now he has a Distanza on there. I run a 150 on my DRZ 400 SM with a 4.50" rim and love it. Quite capable of peg dragging any time. And once you start dragging hard parts, how much more do you think you need?

The tire size rim chart I posted earlier is what the tire manufacturers intend for their product to fit and function correctly. If a motorcycle maker, or you, decide to vary from that, there's not much the tire makers can do about it other than tell you it's really not the right size.

Many times, people will convince themselves that an oversized tire works better for them. If you decide that a 160 is absolutely perfect for you and your 4.25" rim, then by all means do it. There is some value to being comfortable with what you have. And...it is not impossible to find a 160 that is designed to fit a 4.25" rim(allthough very rare)and the tire manufacturer will indicate so. And you will notice that the tread will not curl all the way around...

I think Brian's intent was to show people(new riders especially)that tire fitment according to manufacturers recommendations has real merit. And I still highly suggest that you follow their guidelines.:thumbup:
 
#24 ·
i have done both sizes to try it.
and this is a 4.75 rim-carrozzeria's
the 160 was very heavy to the 150
you could feel it slow the bike down.
and the turn in was slower with the 160 and it didnt wear right,due to some pinching

i have ran five sets of 150s and one set of 160
tires are power race softs
bottom line -brian hit on the head !
 
#26 ·
I have a question that I don't think has been answered yet. I have a 5" rim that I'd like to mount a 150 street tire on because I could use the extra clearance on my 01 520 KTM swingarm and chain. Has anyone done this? I know it would spread the tire out a little and increase the contact patch, but how will it affect the handling? I've heard so many conflicting comments about a 160 on the KTM's having clearance and chain problems (with street tires especially) that I'm reluctant to buy one only to find it wont' fit. Guys never seem to list what year their bikes are when making comments either, so it's hard to know exactly what the 'facts' are. Any tire brand recommendations for this rim/tire fitment =150 on 5"??? Thanks
 
#27 ·
I put a Dunlop DOT 155 on a 5" rim some time ago, it worked pretty good and slid right in on my 03 525 SX, even with the chain guard still on there. It only slid out(racing)at extreme lean angles, but never threw me down. I've never put a 150 on a 5". FWIW the dunlops seem to be more narrow than most other brands, at least that is what I have found. Michelins are fairly narrow also. A 160 in either of those brands should fit you without too much fuss, allthough you'll still need to widget it in during install, but you should get good clearance on each side once it's on. If you do lots of jumping and thereby have to have lots of slop in the chain, it'll probably hit the tire. If you can tighten up the chain for asphalt use, you'll be OK.
The widest tires that I recall having are Avon Distanza's and Maxxis slicks. Both wide as a semi-truck...
 
#28 ·
Thanks Chase,
I'm not sure if my 01 swingarm is the same width as your 03. They look different at the axle location and the models had some changes from 02-03. Mine measures a maximum of 6 1/2" at the location of the widest part of a 17" tire. My friends 160 Dunlop street tire on his all stock 07 Husky 510SMR measures 6" exactly. However, his rim is either a 4.25 or 4.5. So my dilemma is will my 5" rim make the 160 size tires spread out and be wider than 6". If it does then the clearance might be a little tight. I've searched the archives for hours and can't find out the answers I need. I don't want to buy a 160 and have it not fit or rub the chain and I don't want to buy a 150 and have it not work properly on my 5" rim. I would just go with a 150 to start with if I could be sure that this combination is OK and not cause any handling issues. I'd like to use Mich. Pilot Powers as I ride strictly street. I've read on this site where guys say the Mich. PP are wider than most other tires, so you can see that the internet is full of misinformation. Very frustrating! I don't have any SM guys nearby to talk with or I would probably have my questions answered by now
 
#29 ·
So my dilemma is will my 5" rim make the 160 size tires spread out and be wider than 6".
After a quickie measuerment, it seems that your swingarm is more narrow than mine.

What I may suggest..,do you have a local dealer nearby? One that has a fair amount of tires on display? I'd cut a block of wood same length as the inside bead to bead on your rim, stuff it in the tire, then measure right there. Would give you an idea of what the tire would do on the wheel anyway...might give you an idea of which brands would be more suitable for you, even if they don't have the exact model you want.

FYI...the Michelin PP 150 on my 4.5" rim is 6" from edge to edge. The Avon Distanza 160 on my 5.0" rim is 6 1/2". The Dunlop 170 slick on my 5.5" rim is 6".(but that's a slick..)and the maxxis 165 on my 5.5" rim is over 6 1/2".

Sorrry I can't be more help. If I hadta roll the dice, I'd try a Dunlop 160 208 or 209....I thought the 208SM was not a bad tire, but other guys didn't like 'em.

A 150 is for sure the safer bet, and I don't think for street duty you would compromise handling. If so, only at the very edge/severe lean angles it might slip a little. You'd feel it before it spit you off though...
 
#30 ·
Chase, the measurements you gave me are very valuable. Thanks for taking the time. I'll definitely go with the 150 to start. Then after I run it for awhile and see how it fits in and out I'll know if I can get a 160 in there. I'll also try the wood block trick,,,, good idea!
 
#33 ·
3forme ,

FWIW I have personally run 150/60 DOT's from Metzeler , Pirelli and Michelin on my 5" rim . They all worked well and had a nice profile with lots of contact at deep lean angles . You will use ALL the tread surface , but I've never ridden off one yet . I've used them for street , roadrace and supermoto on a 250 lb/65hp bike and have had no problems . I don't bother with 160's any longer , they are just biggger and heavier .
 
#35 ·
What is everyone doing for chain clearance?

I have a 99 YZ400 with 4.25 rear wheel and have been running a 160/60 avon on it. But it always gets in to the chain. Any suggestions would be great. I am also thinking of trying the shinko slicks, and was wondering if anyone has run them? And if so, will a 160/60 fit on a yz400,426,450 with out getting into the chain? Or should I just go with the 150/60.
 
#36 ·
Yyyyyup ! Go with a 150....Avon tires BTW are alot wider than your typical 160.....Avons and pirelli's/Metz are wider than normal....Dunnies are narrower than normal....
 
#37 ·
Thanks for the input. 150 it is. Has anyone tried the Shinko's. Any good or not so good. I guess anything would be better than the avon's. They are like hockey pucks! :rolleyes2:
 
#38 ·
Pretty much any name brand tire that is made in a 150/60 should be pretty grippy . I wouldn't personally take a chance on the Shinkos , the tread pattern is a knock-off of a mid '80's Yokohama (A008 ?) that wasn't very good then . They may be a very good tire but I wouldn't gamble my bones and skin on it .Not sure which Avon's you are unhappy with , but typically they make a good tire .
 
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