SuperMoto Junkie banner

160 tire fitament...4.25" or 5"

258K views 278 replies 120 participants last post by  wsmc549 
#1 · (Edited)
I think this has to be one of the most asked questions, do I use a 160 on a 4.25 wheel or go with a 150 ?? so I decided to profile both tires with picts to show the profile differences....

The tire is a Pirelli race rain, 160/60/17 set at 24 psi, the first pict has the 5"/160 combo at the top of the pict. The second pict. has the 5"/160 combo on the right side of the pict.

If the wheels had slicks on the them the differences are alot more obvious. Yes, some MFG's make a slightly narrower 160 and some actually are a bit wider, but you get the Idea......

I do have more picts If needed....and YES the tire is on backwards....:twofinger
 
#240 ·
on the FS I'd go 5 inch rear wheel with a 160 and call it good... DOT rear will be about as much as that spar will handle and give you a great profile....never tied a 180 DOT on a 5 inch but I can almost guarantee it will be too much
 
#241 · (Edited)
Hey Brian (et all), you seem to be in the know on a lot of this stuff... I too just bought an '11 Berg FS570... it's en-route to my house now. Plan is to ride some street, but also race it on a [short] roadrace course next year. Been looking for wheel options and what slicks to run. I'm a Dunlop snob and don't plan to change that... so in essence looks like I'll be running their UK slick (165/55) which I love their UK's anyway. So I've been wanting to find a 5" wheel but have no idea if I can just go on Motostrano and just buy a 5" or and it'll bolt right up?... their website says they have them for the "Husaberg-All-FE/FC"... not sure what the FC is... but I'm guessing this would fit my bike w/out issue and I'm guessing (your thoughts here?) that the 165 would be fine. Then I was thinking I'd go with a 17" front, but noticed the option for the 16.5" and wondered if I'd notice a difference.

I'm an avid roadracer, so I know what "feel" is on the track. Raced a couple AMA races, so pace is fine (on a superbike style roadracer).

EDIT: I should add too that I really want the extra set of wheels I purchase to be tubeless and am not clear that is possible with the Excels or similar... although my spoke wheels on the Berg are tubeless.

Thoughts?
 
#242 · (Edited)
Call joe and ask for sure about the wheel I think fine but pls double check the FS is the same but 25 mm shorter ......165 on a 5 inch will fit no problem.... If you are doing track days grab a 16.5 front..... tire is a kr 106 465 compound for soft that rear needs to be a soft as its a road race tire ......the 17 front is good for dot tire selection for street .... I have made three sets of spoked tires tubeless now.....adjusters should be on the short side and approx a nut thickness off all the way in maybe a couple mm further out
 
#243 · (Edited)
i thought id chime back in here. on my ktm(2012 450) im running a 5.5 rear centered running a dunlop 250gp/sm tire(165) on it. i made a small chain guard using the guard off a 500exc but the chain never hit the guard, tire or rim! I didnt take any after the track pics but here is a before.



we had a table top and a few doubles in the dirt section so i know my suspension got a work out. Grip was amazing. Wasnt pushing too hard with the setup because im still setting up the bike, but never felt loose. Love it!

running a 16.5 front and 5.5 rear Alpina tubeless setup.

edit.



 
#244 ·
So what psi ? That wear/heat looks really good .... I like the 165 the 170 was the shit the 165 compound really stays consistent I'm really happy your setup worked out so well congrats
 
#245 · (Edited)
I was running 22psi on the warmers. I was trying to sort the rest of the bike so I didn't play with other pressures. Dunlop suggested 21cold rear and like 30 cold front....I was really happy with the bike, even with mx setup suspension/sag. Just wanted a baseline. Brakes are awesome. I was,braking way too early(berringer 6 pot). Can't wait for next season.
 
#246 ·
I run about 24 and 28 hot seems to be the ticket for me....more than 28 on a 16.5 front gets a little twitchy for me, particularly when I'm reaching around for a beer .... :D
 
#247 · (Edited)
Unsure if this would be the right thread for questions regarding 4.5" rim?

I bought a 03YZ250 which has 4.5" rear rim [PO wasnt sure why there was a 4.5" rear rim]. Rim is currently installed with a 160 Pirelli SuperCorsa slick and shows chain rub. Would it make sense to drop down to a 150/60 or try a different brand 160/60 slick. Anyone with experience on 4.5". I will post a pic later tonight.

I was also told by another friend to offset the rim to the right will help a bit. So if i read it correctly, the axle should be loose, wheel pushed all the way to the front, 6 half-turns loose on chain side, 6 half-turns tight on brake side, then re-adjust slider back?

Chain Rub:
 
#249 ·
I was also told by another friend to offset the rim to the right will help a bit. So if i read it correctly, the axle should be loose, wheel pushed all the way to the front, 6 half-turns loose on chain side, 6 half-turns tight on brake side, then re-adjust slider back?
NOOOOOO. The sprocket needs to be in line with the chain, or severely accelerated wear to the sprocket and chain will result. The brake disc also needs to run parallel to the brake pads. Offsetting the rim means loosening the spokes on the drive side and tightening them on the brake side so the rim moves relative to the hub. This is something that should be done by an experienced wheel builder or a brave and technically competent mechanically inclined individual with the right level of OCD and proper tools.
 
#248 ·
stick the wheel where your chain allows it.... make sure its aligned then tighten down and do the offset....If it still hits a bit go another couple half turns keeping an eye on the opposite side...as mentioned on this thread you may want to modify your chain block a bit and guide.... after a few hard laps the chain does slacken a bit and that is where the rub begins....also pay attention to under the swinger... the chain will also hit there as well....
 
#250 ·
My 05 CRF has an Excel 5" rear with a Dunlop KR108 170 on it with barely any chain slap. The Upper chain roller was added afterwards, I'm looking for a new KR108 Rear same size. I'll take measurements and pics of the fitment and if theres any chain slap now that the roller is installed. The 170 slick looks close to a 160 DOT depending on the brand. Maybe 160 DOT Bridgestone S20.
 
#252 ·
Please help!!!

I have a new 2014 ktm enduro r. I bought excel/talon 17 in wheels, 3.5" and 5'in. I got the tires mounted and balanced yesterday and went to install the wheels today. I started with the rear. I pulled the rear wheel off and took the brake rotor off the wheel and transferred it to the SM wheel.

Here's the problem...

I went to go install the new wheel on the bike and ran into fitment issues. I originally left the caliper on the bracket and tried sliding the wheel in place, just as I had pulled the old wheel off. The new wheel and tire were too wide and didn't even come close to fitting in-between the caliber and left side of the swingarm. No matter how I tried contorting the wheel or moving the caliper on the bracket, it was just not happening.

Then I tried removing the caliper from the bracket. I slid the wheel in-between the swingarm just enough so that I could slide the caliper from the inside of the wheel back on to the bracket. When I went to slide it back on, the caliper would not slide back on because the lower part of the caliper was not able to clear the bolts holding on the rotor, or the rotor itself for that matter. I tried rotating the wheel and retrying and that wasn't helping either.

So for the sake of trying to figure out the problem, I tried removing the rotor from the wheel and sliding the wheel in place. I slid the caliper back on the bracket (without the rotor) and everything fit in-between the swingarm, but it was a little tighter than stock. The chain fit back on and was straight, and the axle fit back in, no problem.
So I figured I would attempt to reinstall the rotor with the wheel and caliper in place. I had to remove the wheel spacer to get the rotor in-between the wheel and caliper. I slid it through, which was very difficult while holding the wheel in place with my feet, and once the rotor was in place I put 2 bolts fully on finger tight but not torqued down. I slowly rotated the wheel a few inches and saw the bolts holding on the rotor do not even come close to clearing the caliper. The entire bolt head hits the caliper, almost a 1/4in of clearance issue. And yes both the original bolts and the new bolts are the same size it every way. I also noticed the rotor was not on very straight because it was having trouble clearing the caliper.

I am very confused.
These wheels and tires are identical to what is used on the KTM 690 smc r (160/60/17). I'm pretty sure both the enduro and the smc use the same swingarm, and even though the smc has larger brakes, I don't see how these wheels are not fitting mine.
I guess I must be doing something wrong, although I have no idea what it is. The wheels fit in every way...except when the rotor is installed on the wheel.
F#%@ Friday the 13th!!!!

I don't understand what is wrong or what I am doing wrong but I could really use some help!
 
#253 ·
Im determined to run the michelin ct2 tires on my 14 500 exc. Ive got a 160 contimotion (dislike the tires) on it now and it clears for days on both sides but it has a 4.25 rim on it...
Is there a better option in a 150 tire for 90% street use or should i get a 5" rim to satisfy my want of the 160 ct2??
I know that a 160 will fit on my 4.25 rim but i know its not optimal.
 
#254 ·
Hi, I have a KTM 450EXC 2008 with kit SM behr 4.25. I have buy the new tyre, but this problem is, what tyre enters my bike without touch with chain? I need that tyre is homologated for road(e4), in my certification of bike puts the tyre in 160/60/17, I think in goldspeed e4 or Goldspeed Ultra Street Sport tyre or metzeler m3 or m5, all in 160/60/17, anyone have this tyre in KTM EXC 2008?

I am desperate !

Thank you!
 
#261 ·
do this



I have a 500 exc 2014 with a 5 inch rear and 160 tire. It does take some experimenting to fit the tire but it will fit just fine. The trick, start high up in the wheel well. you will have to tilt the tire radically to the right (when viewed from behind). Take the time to zip tie some shop rags to the wheel sides to keep the caliper from scratching the hell out of the rim.

Fitting is a breeze compared to not getting the chain to rub the tire. On a 5 inch wheel dishing is not noticeable, at least at 100 mph. Non o-rings buy you very little in terms of clearance. the one huge variable is oem tire width for DOT tires. I thought somewhere there was an actual measurement for DOT tires but I cannot find it to save my ass. My Conti SM 160 will rub the chain lightly.

I hope this helps a little.
 
#257 ·
I see this problem on a ton of the threads. I think Monstrano and Moto X should step in and let us know a fix or if the 5" tires just don't work on War9 wheels. I see Warp9 now offers cush hubs so maybe they fixed this other problem too, but I wouldn't bet on it.
 
#258 ·
I've got a 2010 Husqvarna 510 SMR, comes stock with a 4.25" rear rim and 150/60/17 tire.

The tire that came on there is a Dunlop D253 SM and I was quite happy with it for the little I rode it (bought the bike used with 1058mi on it, now at 1331mi and its to the wear bars).

I looked but you cannot get that tire in the USA, even emailed Dunlop USA and they wouldn't help.

I've been looking for replacements but there's just not that much in the 150/60 size, far more choices and far better/grippier tires in the 160 widths. For 150s I'm stuck with old-tech tires and mostly sport or sport touring style but not track or DOT Race like the Pirelli Diablo SuperCorsa SPs I love to run on my sport bike.

I assume running a 160 would mushroom the tire too much for my 4.25" rim?
Intended use is sumo track days and spirited street riding, no commuting, no actual racing, no dirt/off-road.

I looked at the Conti SMs, but they get widely mixed and sometimes negative reviews.

The Pirelli Rosso II would fit, and the carcass style is similar to the SuperCorsa so my Pirelli rep says I could run a SP up front and a Rosso in the back, but I prefer to match tires and compounds instead of having varying levels of grip front to rear.

So, is it better to stick with the 150/60 but be forced to run a less grippy tire, or is it better to run a grippier tire in 160 even though it'll mushroom?
 
#259 ·
If you look at the specs for most 160's, they tend to be made to fit a 4.5" rim. They also fit a 5" rim, with a slightly flatter profile. And they usually fit a 4.25" rim, with a sharper profile. Some 160's are wider than others. Some will fit better on a 4.25" rim than others.
I have / had no issues running a 160 Michelin on a 4.5" rim, I don't have anything with a 4.25" rim. But I would be surprised if it caused a serious issue. As to what you like and don't like, I don't know.
I will take the opportunity to point out that the DRZ SM runs a 4.5" rim and a Dunlop 140 on the rim stock (I have run a 160 michelin on there in place of the 140 with zero issues). If nothing else you could run that tire on your 4.25" rim. I am pretty sure a 1/4 inch difference will make no difference. But that is a narrower tire than most 150's and 160's. Going with a narrower tire does reduce the likelihood of running into clearance problems, going with a wider tire may result in clearance issues.
 
#265 ·
Still confuses me.



Husky,

I agree the Conti SM is wide in a weird way. The thread and the sidewall come to a "point" I am not sure why that is, I guess it does give a bit more surface area. It is funny to me because I went with the Conti because I had read on SuperMotoJunkie it was one of the narrowest :)

To be fair, maybe at the time of the post it was the narrowest. I am beginning to believe it is somewhat the luck of the draw. Sure, there are probably big FAT 160's you should stay away from, but there is a whole bunch of contradiction on what works and what does not. These threads, I really should not comment on. I have tried one tire and rim combo (Excel 5in) so not exactly a wealth of knowledge here. I need to search for the guys that race or have been riding SM way longer than I and get qualified opinions. I also tried to get one of the chain guides made by the fellow in the UK. Apparently, he is not doing them anymore, as I never heard back from him.
 
#266 ·
I have been reading this thread and I have to admit I am totally new to supermoto world. That being said I jumped in with both feet and just bought a KTM EXC 500. From what I have read running a 5" rim and a 160/60 on the street really has no advantage. I don't think I actually saw an answer to the 5" rim with a 150/60 combo being good or bad for the streets.
 
#267 ·
If you can put a 180 on the rear it will not give you any more traction, period. Traction/friction is a byproduct of pressure, period. Tire selection is key. You need to determine what you need the tire to do. Carve up canyons, commute, a little trail adventuring, track days, a little of everything? Choose the appropriate tire for your intended usage, and see what sizes are available then choose the rim size. Just remember a super sport soft is a supermoto medium.

And the usual disclaimer, before you want to argue traction/friction google it. DaVinci, Amontons, Euler, Newton, Einstein and a plethora of others all can't be wrong.
 
#269 ·
For the most part I will just be doing light commutes and hauling it out to the twisties when I can. I have several friends that do a limited number of track days and may try one but I am really to old to be thinking about being a racer.
I really am curious about a 5" rim combo and a 150/60 profile and if there are issues with running it such as the fitment and if it has ill handling effects?
 
#270 ·
what i can remember



From what I remember, the main reason for the 5in is to run the 160 tire. If you are running a 150, gosh, I bet you would be fine with the 4.25. I don't want to mislead you as there are much more knowledgable guy and gals on here then me. Another great site is KTM talk if you have not already found it. By the way, old guy here as well. Us old guys have to stick together :)
 
#271 ·
I wasn't sure if using a 5" rim witg the 150/60 had a negative effect in the cornering. I figured it would solve the fitment issue but maybe not.
Thanks for letting me know about KTM talk, more info is always good.
Yeah we may be older but our toys are much better ;-)

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
#272 ·
50+ here. Our toys are typically not better but we have more of them, >>>>>typically<<<<<. Some of the things I've owned or still own are the things that 20 somethings tell stories about, "My (insert relatives/friends name) used to have a (insert toy) that would do(insert tall tale) etc." All the things we should've kept. Well I still have my '69 charger that I paid $600 for back in the day, other things yeah I still regret.

Back on topic. I've seen it all. Done some of it too. The biggest argument for a 5 is tire selection. My last tires, Avon Distanzias, in supermoto compound show a fitment for the 160 rim to be 4.25-5.00. In my superbike era I grew up as tire sizes were getting wider and front tire diameters were getting sorted by the manufacturers. 110 then 120,130,140,150,160,170,180, the buyers demanded wider and wider. Front wheel diameters, 18,17,16 then settled in on 17. At the end of the day, a 5 looks the most awesome, performance wise a 4.5 with either a 150 or 160 or a 5 with a 150 or 160 would all be a toss up and be more effected by tire manufacturer than sizing.
 
#273 ·
Well I just didn't want go wrong on the wheel set up so I figured I would ask those who know. I'm thinking the 150/60 might be a bit thin for the 5" rim. I just didn't want to make it tough on myself when I install my wheels.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top