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How to lean W-A-Y over in corners?????

27K views 93 replies 30 participants last post by  sedona sunrider 
#1 ·
Hey guys, :hmmm:
I just took the DR350 out on it's maiden SM voyage down a tight, twisty, hilly road with a 120/65-17 Mich. pilot sport (front tire) on the rear, and a 120/60-17 Power Race (soft compound) on the front. It's virtually a slick with a bit of tread to pass DOT.

This thing is like freakin' GLUED to the road. Especially the front tire (Power race soft), the profile at the sides is virtually parallel to the rim, the tread wraps practically all the way to the rim, so theoretically, I have enough tread on the edges to virtually touch the bars to the ground.

I am really confused though. I see all these pics of pro's leaning over so far they touch their elbows to the track and such. I was decked out and planning on trying my nerve, at least a little knee work.

My question is this, Remember, this was my first time out since the SM rebuild- I have the shock spring cranked up pretty stiff so it won't squat much in the corners, and although the DRZ forks still have the stock springs, I was under power all the time so my weight was on the rear tire while cornering, and my FIRST time out I was dragging the pegs a few different times.

HOW do these Pro's get the bike leaned over so far? Is the DR just that much wider? I was leaning the bike as far as physically possible because the pegs were grinding solidly on the road - I wasn't hanging off much, but there was NO WAY I could have even put a knee down, much less an elbow.

What am I missing? The SM track wants sliders on both axles, the bar ends, and under the footpegs. If I do that, I may as well ride a cruiser around the track, I won't be able to lean it at all.

I know sliding the corners isn't the fastest way to get around the track, but I'm not in it to race, I just want to have fun, and to me that means trying to touch my elbow, etc and see how low I can go.

Do I just need a narrower bike? Or, since I only have a small rear tire, that is also limiting my ground clearance. A higher profile, and wider tread would provide more clearance, but not THAT much... and the widest I can fit is a 140, which limits my choices.. (has anyone tried a BT003RS for street use??)

I have some slicks that are 125/80-17's, that would be a good bit taller, but I can''t run 'em on the street, and I can't afford to waste money at the track if I can't lean the bike over...

Can any of you PLEASE enlighten me as to what I can do, or what others are doing, to allow them to lean as far as they want without grinding half their bike off?

Thanks!
Joe
 
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#2 ·
Suspension and body positioning are going to be my guess. And I'm pretty sure that's part of why you need peg sliders so they can drag/slide and not grip. Pros do some extreme stuff to make their bikes do what they do, I'm sure you will get some pointers but for now be patient.
 
#4 ·
The SM track wants sliders on both axles, the bar ends, and under the footpegs. If I do that, I may as well ride a cruiser around the track, I won't be able to lean it at all.
sliders dont limit how much you can "lean" your bike so im not sure what your getting at with that, people that ride knee out are not leaned over that far. If you want to drag a knee mabey you need to change up your style a bit? as far as draging and elbow i dont see the point unless your crashing lol, i have seen a vid of a guy do it, but good luck on that :thumbup:
 
#7 ·
Thanks, everyone,
Evan, I agree with the body positioning, Thanks for the effort of the pic. I usually am not on the seat much other than transitioning from side to side, Today was an experiment to see what the BIKE could do, without my changing the center of gravity by hanging off and going deceptively faster. I wanted the bike to lean, to see how it felt, and how it gripped at full lean. I just expected it to go a lot further over than it was able to.

My long-winded point was, how do the pro's (or anyone who likes to slide low) have the clearance to DO it? I don't see SM bikes with rearsets or raised pegs, they look OEM.

The point about the sliders was that it will in effect make the pegs even lower to the ground, and more easily grounded. True, they will slide easier, but I don't want them to hit at all until I'm leaned WAY over.

My 1100 Kaw is MUCH wider, but with the suspension set stiff I can lean it as far as I want, I can easily put a knee down, (even without hanging off hardly at all if I get lazy) and there are NO chicken strips on my michelins at all. With the DR350, which is much narrower, and taller as well, I'm grinding hard parts on my first trip out.

I'm trying to find out what other supermoto riders do to allow them these extreme lean angles.

Anybody??

Thanks!
:hmmm:

PS: How do you post pics on here?
 
#8 · (Edited)
the peg sliders i have are only about 1/4 inch thick, no matter what you do the pegs are gunna hit, sure some bikes may hit more than others, but if your riding at that level they will hit.
 
#9 ·
ok here are a few pic of me the one backing it in is about as far out as i like/can go and be in controll, the peg is just grazed the ground, the other pic you can see the peg but its on the ground. are you trying to get super low "backing it in" or just turning? also the faster you go the more stable you are being "lower" at least to me lol
 

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#12 ·
Hey, thanks for the replies everyone.

Yes, what I was trying to do is to get "super-low" like I've seen videos, etc. of. I mean I have a pic on my computer of a guy sliding so low his foot looks to be at least 6 inches ABOVE and in front of the peg, (there is nowhere for his foot, because the bike is so low) his shift lever is pointing almost straight at the ground, and looks to be about 1/2" off the track. His elbow and his knee look to be about 8" apart, and they're both on the track. you can see his footpeg is hitting, but not that much.

Granted, he's way beyond where I'll probably ever be, but I'm trying to figure out HOW his bike allows him to do that.

If you can tell me how to upload an image from my computer, I'll let you see for yourself. It really is a hell of a picture.

Thanks!
 
#13 ·
go to the reply"the advanced" one there will b a paper clip symbole click that and it will let you upload a pic:thumbup:
 
#15 ·
All you need to do to be able to do that is be able to ride like the guy in the picture I posted and Prerunner32 with your eyes closed. Then you're only a year or two of regular practice and training away from your goal. ...oh, and buy folding foot pegs.
 
#17 ·
I never said it was easy, I'm just trying to figure out how the bike can lean that far over, without anything significant touching down.

In my case, even if I took my foot off the peg like he does, my footpeg would be pinned flat up against the bike, levering the tires off the track.

I've had that happen before, back when I used to race a KZ1000R Eddie Lawson Replica back in the early 80's... I passed a guy and threw the bike hard into the corner, and leaned over far enough that even though it was tucked in tight to the swingarm, the header hit the ground and levered the rear tire loose, and the bike went spinning off the track.

I'm just trying to find a way to avert a repeat performance...

Obviously, the way his bike is set up, he has WAY more clearance than I do, and I suspect that many of you probably do also, I'm just looking for ideas or things someone may have learned that would help.
Thanks!
 
#18 ·
I've never drug an elbow on a supermoto, but in my experience it's down to rider skill, bike set up, and body position. I'm a small guy, so when I ride full size bikes (not minis or GP bikes) it takes a lot of body english to get the bike to do what I want it to do. So I end up hanging pretty far off of the bike, and this results in things dragging. I never actually drug my elbow on purpose at race speed, it always came as an accident or as a result of tall inside curbing. My advice, do a trackday, it would help you tremendously. You can act like a goon like the guys in the video, and get away with it! And before you know it you'll need elbow sliders. :thumbup:



 
#19 ·
Oh, I definitely plan to, many times, I just want the bike prepped first, and there's work to be done. I have to find more ground clearance somewhere, even if it means raising the pegs a bit.

But, then there's the sidestand & bracket too, they would probably need to come off as well. That's what i'm trying to find out... ways of gaining more clearance.

Nice pics...you? I always wanted to get more into roadracing than I did. I spent 2 years mostly endurance racing, and a season as a mechanic at the 1982 Daytona 200 for an HRC Pro Honda team, before I started working at dealerships. Partying with Kenny Roberts & the gang was a dream come true for a 20-year old kid, man those were the days!

That's why I'm asking for input, I've never ridden SM before and I want the bike set up as good as I can get it before I get on the track, at least short of adding another 75cc's! (although the 376cc kit, bored out 35mm pumper carb, huge ports, and hand built 1-3/4" header have made a huge improvement in an otherwise slow bike.
 
#20 ·
that guy had some serious skills and a nice bike to do that, i have seen another pic or two of a guy pulling that off, i doubt anyone on this sight can do that at least with out crashing lol id say youd need endless track days and a crap load of crashes to get that lol for me i have no need to do that ill stick to racing haha but hey to each ther own and if you can ever pull it off make sure you get a pic! Good luck
 
#22 ·
Wait.....you were a mechanic for a Daytona 200 team, but you're asking how to increase ground clearance!? I'm confused! 8)

as far as dragging your elbow goes...honestly, while it may look fun....the type of elbow dragging 99.8567% of the racers in the world do usually results in some kind of pain & parts destruction. If you can do it, consider yourself special. & please post pics!
Hopefully it's not of your xrays! LOL
 
#23 ·
Did I read that right? You have a 120 size rear tire? That definitely would hinder lean angle. Going from a 140 to a 150 was like night and day on my bike. Pros like your picture run anywhere from 160, 165, 170, and 175 size rear tire slicks. In my opinion, supermotos are tall and should be ridden as such, lean the bike more than you lean. But technique is definitely a key.

Say I'm coming up to a left turn, I sit my arse on the top corner on the outside (in this case right) of the seat, stick my left foot out and up a bit, and counter steer that sucker into the turn, basically shoving it under me and I weight the outside (in this case the right) peg and it feels lanted. I'm not an expert by any means but this style has worked for me, I havent dragged peg yet, but I wouldnt want to on the street. Never been a fan of knee dragging on a dirtbike.
 
#24 ·
you're aware that the slower of the 2 guys is a World Superbike rider ?

David Checa born on April 20, 1980 in Sant Fruitós de Bages, Barcelona, Spain is the 2004 Endurance World Champion. He currently competes in the Superbike World Championship.

David Checa has been racing since 1996, contesting Superbike World Championship and Supersport World Championship races at home and in Europe. He spent 2000-2002 racing in the 250cc World Championship with a best overall finish of 13th before moving to Endurance World Championship. He was Pirelli's main tester for their Superbike World Championship control tyre in 2005, also doing a few races. He signed up for the Supersport World Championship Le Mans 24 winner and master endurance winner in 2005 and 3 wild car races in motogp in place of Elias for injury. 2006, but broke a wrist pre-season, he finished 11th overall. He continued in the Supersport World Championship for 2007 finishing 12th overall. He also won the 2007 Bol d'Or endurance race.
 
#25 ·
Here's my 2 cents, as a current road racer and Supermoto racer. Each bike requires a different style to ride. I don't ride my SM llike I do my road bike. On the SM I don't stick my knee out, I lay the bike over and stick out the inside foot. Ass crack on the other side of the seat and let the front tire dig. On the road bike, inside cheek off the seat, knee out, balls of feet on the inside peg, and head over where the mirror should be. Open up the elbows and hang off. I don't like sticking my knee out on my SM just because that much weight off the inside of the bike doesn't feel comfortable, probably because the speeds are so much lower with SM than road racing.

In short, ride the SM like a flat track bike with your weight over the top of the bike, inside foot skimming the ground as you rail the bike. Pick up your elbows as high as you can and push the inside bar as low as you can. It feels like I am ready to drag my bars in the corner (I know that isn't true) and my pegs are definitely skimming the ground. I only ride knee-out on the SM if I am on the big tracks where corner speed is really high, otherwise it's foot out and bars down for stability. Look for pictures of dirt track guys with their outside (right) elbow really high in the air as they corner, that's a good example of riding an SM in the corners.
 
#29 ·
It takes alot of speed, brakes and more importantly SKILL. You may have the skill but you don't have the speed and brakes w/ a DR350. It looks great and I think it would be cool to do, but that isn't a race. That's 2 great riders railing a track for cameras. If dragging an elbow was the fastest way around the track then more people would do it. If you insist on more ground clearance, raise your pegs, and get short pegs or make them yourself. Fastway makes shortie that are pretty cool.

Here's a better pic of a guy leaned over.
 
#31 ·
Here are some links to me leaning the SM on the big track. I was mugging a bit, but there is room to keep tipping.

http://studio819.smugmug.com/WMRRA/4-4-09/217/7833989_MmJvY#507674330_wGfY6
http://studio819.smugmug.com/Adrenaline-Freaks/4-3-09/Control-Riders/7826111_EJGMf#506965379_3KC2H

Here's a pic of one fella just trying too hard to get his knee down. Way too far off the bike, it still has chicken strips and he isn't that fast. But, his knee is down. Take from this what you will.

http://studio819.smugmug.com/Adrenaline-Freaks/4-3-09/Control-Riders/7826111_EJGMf#506964582_RV9fr

Basically, getting a knee down is an indicator of how long your leg is, not how fast you are going. You really do want to ride a SM on the slow tracks (or slow corners) with the foot out, it keeps the weight from tipping the whole apple cart onto the track. Knees on the ground requires speed under the wheels.
 
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