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Thread: wheelies - learning clutch vs power

  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by piggyotoshishi View Post
    hey guys, im new here. i read the entire thread and sum up my entire experience learning to wheelie:

    i manage to pop the front wheel up about as high as 2-3 cans of coke stacked up.
    how i did it is that i cruised at first around 12-15km/h, clutch it up, blow/gas the throttle once twice and i slipped the clutch.

    the question is, i manage to get to that height (2-3 cans) always. how do i get up higher ? slip the clutch faster ?
    what bike are you riding? and what is "blowing the throttle"?

    You should keep the throttle steady and as you slip the clutch give it some more gas at the same time. If it gets up 3 soda cans now it probably means you are leaning forward or letting off the gas as it comes up.
    Matt
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  3. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift1313 View Post
    what bike are you riding? and what is "blowing the throttle"?

    You should keep the throttle steady and as you slip the clutch give it some more gas at the same time. If it gets up 3 soda cans now it probably means you are leaning forward or letting off the gas as it comes up.
    where i am living in, "blow the throttle" means clutching it up and revving the throttle(open/closing the throttle quickly)

    i ride a Drz400sm-2011model.

    thanks Shift1313. so i should lean back or sit up right instead of leaning forward?
    and as soon as i am at 12-15km/h range in first i should clutch it up, maintain throttle, and slip it and gas it alittle simultaneously right?

  4. #453
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    At that speed, that gear and leaning back I would be very careful. Right idea but take it easy, keep your foot on the rear brake and be prepared to back the throttle off.

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  6. #454
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    I'm a little pussy-fied to try it out. HAHAHAHA but god damn wheelie seems helluva fun

  7. #455
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    You'll be ok, just start slowly and just keep giving it more and more. You don't need to "blow" the throttle just open it to about 3/4 as if you were accelerating away pull the clutch in and drop it again.

  8. #456
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    iv got a new bike since i last posted. my ktm 620 is bang it in second and full throttle untill the front came up to where i want it and then do my best to keep it there which was never long. iv got a huqvarna te 450 now and it wheelies off the powere on 3/4 throttle in the first 4 gears and popd up in 5th with a little bounce on the bars. gonna go get some practice tonorrow off road.

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    I've been riding bikes for 15 yrs and still haven't mastered it, :( I can get it up no probs just can't keep it up in a controlled manner, need to change the gearing slightly me thinks

  10. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by piggyotoshishi View Post
    where i am living in, "blow the throttle" means clutching it up and revving the throttle(open/closing the throttle quickly)

    i ride a Drz400sm-2011model.

    thanks Shift1313. so i should lean back or sit up right instead of leaning forward?
    and as soon as i am at 12-15km/h range in first i should clutch it up, maintain throttle, and slip it and gas it alittle simultaneously right?

    is your bike stock? mine with a jet kit, 3x3, slip on, and 44T rear this is what i would do....

    SECOND gear at 30kmh. full throttle, pop clutch, not slip, POP, then lift right away again.. works like a charm every time... In first gear like others have said be careful..

    I dont know why you are slipping your clutch and only getting a foot... i could loop a power wheelie in first easy....


    the big thing to remember is to pop the clutch with the power on, not after you have already let off, which is what most people do. and don't slip your clutch... You may find doing them in second gear to be easier ... its a bit of a trade off, the wheelie will be more stable at speed, but its scary cause you are going faster.... I could wheelie second for a solid block safely under the balance point... no risk of looping.

    also pay attention to whats in your view... im pretty tall so I just tride to keep the triples in front of me... i knew i was safe if i could still see over them hahah

    Last edited by D4N63R; 12-04-2012 at 09:23 PM.

  11. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by D4N63R View Post
    is your bike stock? mine with a jet kit, 3x3, slip on, and 44T rear this is what i would do....

    SECOND gear at 30kmh. full throttle, pop clutch, not slip, POP, then lift right away again.. works like a charm every time... In first gear like others have said be careful..

    I dont know why you are slipping your clutch and only getting a foot... i could loop a power wheelie in first easy....


    the big thing to remember is to pop the clutch with the power on, not after you have already let off, which is what most people do. and don't slip your clutch... You may find doing them in second gear to be easier ... its a bit of a trade off, the wheelie will be more stable at speed, but its scary cause you are going faster.... I could wheelie second for a solid block safely under the balance point... no risk of looping.

    also pay attention to whats in your view... im pretty tall so I just tride to keep the triples in front of me... i knew i was safe if i could still see over them hahah


    Not sure what pop clutch is but all I to is a one.finger.slip while I am giving it throttle I don't hold in clutch.and pop it if.that's what u mean that's a way to end up on ur but I think esspecally for new ppl learning I worked.on second gear go about 20 mph 15 whatever feels comfy and slowly work.on giving.throttle and wit one finger slip ur clutch will bring it.up drzs.are a bit of.turds stock I big bored mine and I can lift up 1st threw 4th and 5th on a big hill lol I have 3x3 jetted big bored 434 and stock 15 41 gearing just always always I can't say it enough cover and be ready to use ur rear brake sry I am on my phone so hard to see what I typeing sry for.the fails lol
    07 Drz434sm

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    Quote Originally Posted by D4N63R View Post
    is your bike stock? mine with a jet kit, 3x3, slip on, and 44T rear this is what i would do....

    SECOND gear at 30kmh. full throttle, pop clutch, not slip, POP, then lift right away again.. works like a charm every time... In first gear like others have said be careful..

    I dont know why you are slipping your clutch and only getting a foot... i could loop a power wheelie in first easy....


    the big thing to remember is to pop the clutch with the power on, not after you have already let off, which is what most people do. and don't slip your clutch... You may find doing them in second gear to be easier ... its a bit of a trade off, the wheelie will be more stable at speed, but its scary cause you are going faster.... I could wheelie second for a solid block safely under the balance point... no risk of looping.

    also pay attention to whats in your view... im pretty tall so I just tride to keep the triples in front of me... i knew i was safe if i could still see over them hahah

    What boots are those that you are wearing? I Love how they look in the Gray would you happen to know if tehy come in a black as well and what price range they run in? thanks and great instructions once I get a little more comfortable on my bike I may try but as for now getting back into it :P
    Loki87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki87 View Post
    What boots are those that you are wearing? I Love how they look in the Gray would you happen to know if tehy come in a black as well and what price range they run in? thanks and great instructions once I get a little more comfortable on my bike I may try but as for now getting back into it :P
    Loki87
    Those boots are aplinestar tech 3s
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike1987 View Post
    Those boots are aplinestar tech 3s
    Thank you

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    Tech6 ftw.

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    I've always found it best to practice on a quad. A few reasons are, you can focus more on your technique by now having to worry about your balance, a better feel for brake control since your feet are up, and best thing is if you go to far over you'll just scrape the grab bar and not flip all the way over. It works great, most peeps can have a clutched or powered up wheelie with brake/balance control down in about an hour... Really helps with getting over the fear of flipping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OlleR View Post
    I prefer bumping it up, which means that you make the suspension rebound help you. You just push down on the forks and while they are about to go back up you rock backwards and then just add more throttle. This way its no problem doing (initiating) wheelies in 90mph with the Aprilia SXV 450

    Another way which you can use together with this technique is to shut off the throttle and then on it again

    I prefer not to use the clutch because I think it makes it more difficult once you are up there. If you are gonna go very slow then its a must, but since you are asking the question thats not on the table

    Once you get the hang of it start practicing standing up, it makes things easier to learn

    Shifting while in a wheelie is the same as race shifting. Someone described it above. Using the clutch to shift while in a wheelie is to be asking for trouble
    Why is it asking for trouble? Surely the worst thing that can happen is the front wheel will just go back down if you take too long? I have shifted from 1st to 2nd in a wheelie with no problem before. I am only just beginning so I have little experience but nothing bad happened that time and the wheelie continued just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by DRZplease View Post
    Thank you for clearing that up with me. It makes way more sense. I was told hold the throttle steady and pull release the clutch, which I had been doing, but it just revs a little lurchs a tiny bit, then nothing. Noooooooooow it makes sense, stay tuned

    Re the technique of clutch control, I find dipping the clutch and then applying throttle as you release it to be the most natural and effective way.

    I am uncomfortable with the idea of accelerating and then dipping the clutch and releasing it whilst maintaining a fixed throttle input. Increasing the throttle as you release the clutch seems right to me.
    Last edited by flynn_; 04-15-2016 at 01:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Söde View Post
    Higher, higher. This is my friend. He was 16yr at that time Some of you might have seen this video before.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxxVURdxQ78
    Holy shit I was wondering why he looked so small! I bet he could barely hang on to the bike with those skinny teen boy arms! In Europe you are only allowed a 125cc in most countries, in England only a 50cc at that age! Must have worked real hard from a young age to afford that and have tolerant parents.

    By the way, this thread shows 10 pages I thought I would blast through it, but each page seems to have 50 odd posts in it, I am only on page five, gotta add it to favourites and take a break and come back tomorrow I think.

  20. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbz View Post
    no idea what to really tell you there, ive been clutching bikes and wheelers since i was 4, its so completely easy your gonna feel like an idiot when you figure it out lol (no offense by the way)

    if you ride your bike daily and use your clutch all the time i cant even think to figure out how you can't do it. you got throttle it more before dumpin the clutch it sounds like your hitting the throttle to late and its not coming up. almost at the same time but you want to start to throttle before you dump your finger off the clutch.
    By god you're post smacks of egotism. Why would you even be doing wheelies as a 4 year old? What kind of parent would encourage that behaviour? And why would they priotize you having a bike before your education!?

    Edit: It's not just you though from reading more replies this thread reeks of male bravado and egotism.
    Last edited by flynn_; 04-13-2016 at 07:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacSlow View Post
    First thing to remember... it'll take time to get used to your new bike... weight, vibrations, reaction to throttle input etc. So don't stress yourself!

    From the start learn to bring the front down with the rear brake!!! Don't use engine-braking for that... well you can, but put focus on learing to use the rear brake to bring it down again. That is your insurance against flipping the bike, once you get better and are able to lift the front higher up (past the balance-point, which is so high you'll be scared shitless once you get there the first few times).

    Always have pressure on the pegs and "grab the tank with the knees", arms extended (only very slightly bent). Grab the throttle with the full hand (no fingers on the front-brake... you don't need it anyway), that'll give you more control for throttle input. Only two fingers (or one) on the clutch lever... rest of left hand grabs the grip. Once the front is up use the whole left hand to hold the left grip. This will all you to also support yourself better and avoid you accidentally pulling the clutch while the front is up... that can get very nasty for numerous reasons.
    Regarding the rear brake... you need to force yourself to let the throttle open and not shut it... because the rear brake would not be as efficient as a means to bring the bike back down, if the throttle is closed.

    Practise slow... using clutching-it-up, don't try to use power-wheelie as a "shortcut" to get instant success in bringing the front wheel high in the air. Practising slow (in 1st gear) has two benefits... it's safer to crash when riding slow... when riding slow you'll train your balance (once you get up higher) at the same time... thus making you more competent to control the bike when the front is pointing skywards.

    Regarding clutching-it-up: start from standing or really rolling slow... pull in the clutch, give it some gas and dump the clutch. The bit by bit increase the amount of throttle you give... and I mean in mm. Over time you'll get a feel of how much you've to twist the throttle so your 610SM comes up nicely in 1st. In the beginning give it only slightly more than idle gas. Could be that you'll stall it often. But better close in on the right amount of throttle-twist bit by bit then whacking it, open dumping the clutch and flipping it.

    And yet another tip... don't move your upper body towards the handlebar, when the bike comes up. You'll have to work very hard to avoid that from happening!!! Although your 610SM will have enough oomph to cope with that, don't do it. Stay with your upper body stiff (at arms length) when coming up. That'll make it easier for the bike to raise the front and you'll also don't have to compensate for this by more throttle input. Later when you're able to raise it up, to where you've the handlebar or tank blocking your view forward, you'll have to come a bit forward with your upper body... otherwise it will be hard to look ahead This also gives the raising it up this effortless look imo.

    Have a look at my wheelie-clips to get and idea how much time I gave myself. Took about 5 months to get almost 12 o'clock down, but I never crashed or flipped any of my bikes. By now it's second nature to me and I can start playing with it.

    Practise, practise, practise. Better every day (or every second day) ~20 Minutes... than once a week for 2 hours.

    It never gets boring...



    Best regards...

    MacSlow
    This is the second reference to this I have seen, I have gone from first to second using the clutch without anything bad happening

    I disagree, tensing up is the worst thing you can do, stay relaxed.
    Last edited by flynn_; 04-15-2016 at 01:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flynn_ View Post
    By god you're post smacks of egotism. Why would you even be doing wheelies as a 4 year old? What kind of parent would encourage that behaviour? And why would they priotize you having a bike before your education!?

    Edit: It's not just you though from reading more replies this thread reeks of male bravado and egotism.
    You're really talking shit about a post from 2011?
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    Quote Originally Posted by toten View Post
    You're really talking shit about a post from 2011?
    I speak the truth, not my fault if it hurts! I just had to read through the last few pages of his bravado, I earned it!

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    This is how to clutch em up.


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    Cringeworthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flynn_ View Post
    Cringeworthy.





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    Quote Originally Posted by flynn_ View Post
    Cringeworthy.
    is this guy serious? sounds like your buttplug fell out buddy

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    Most, if not all videos I watch on YT are people clutching it up (even on bikes with enough grunt to power it up in every gear) So I figured it must be the preferred or best technique to use. I don't use the clutch myself but I can see how it would give you more breathing room before a chase has begun.

    I think using the clutch is harder to do, but depending on what bike you own, it could also be a necessity *points at Grom* I've just never had the inclination (mind the pun) to use the clutch on a bike that power-wheelies in the first 5 gears, but as others have said, it's probably not the best technique. The main difference as I see it, is to give yourself a decent window under power, you need to give the bike a little persuasion by way of weighting the bike, pre-loading the suspension, or reefing at the handlebars, or all of the above. With some practice, powering it up can give you all the time you need to settle into the BP without needing to change gears.

    All of this becomes a non-issue if you (unlike me) have learned to cover the RB. Then you can just slow your wheelie down, And the window becomes infinite. I guess there's possibly only one advantage to power-wheelies over Clutch-ups, that being your clutch will probably live longer.
    Last edited by Wheelieaddiction; 10-18-2016 at 11:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelieaddiction View Post
    Most, if not all videos I watch on YT are people clutching it up (even on bikes with enough grunt to power it up in every gear) So I figured it must be the preferred or best technique to use. I don't use the clutch myself but I can see how it would give you more breathing room before a chase has begun.

    I think using the clutch is harder to do, but depending on what bike you own, it could also be a necessity *points at Grom* I've just never had the inclination (mind the pun) to use the clutch on a bike that power-wheelies in the first 5 gears, but as others have said, it's probably not the best technique. The main difference as I see it, is to give yourself a decent window under power, you need to give the bike a little persuasion by way of weighting the bike, pre-loading the suspension, or reefing at the handlebars, or all of the above. With some practice, powering it up can give you all the time you need to settle into the BP without needing to change gears.

    All of this becomes a non-issue if you (unlike me) have learned to cover the RB. Then you can just slow your wheelie down, And the window becomes infinite. I guess there's possibly only one advantage to power-wheelies over Clutch-ups, that being your clutch will probably live longer.
    In my opinion, You need to clutch it up if you want to get up to the Balance Point at slower speeds with the RPMs lower. You can't power up the front in 1st or 2nd in a controlled way and keep the speeds low. You said you do and maybe you got it down but 95% of people won't ever be able to on a big single cylinder bike unless its geared to be a stunt bike. On the track to wheelie down the straights just give the bars a little tug and lean back instead of forward then click through the gears Yes i can power wheelie up to the BP in 2nd gear without shifting(typically click 3rd to get it sorted) but thats usually 35mph +. To get a controlled slow wheelie i just don't see how its possible or probably, but thats just my opinion as i am no wheelie guru or anything.

    Also i had a drz for 12years or so. 30k miles of clutch dump wheelies on the stock clutch, starting when it was bone stock and brand new. Never changed it and around 26k miles it still measured in spec. Clutch dumps or rapid clutch pulls aren't as hard on a clutch as slipping/riding the clutch. It also helps takes some of the shock out of the driveline since nearly all the bikes we talk about don't have a cush drive rear. Its much easier on a bike if the chain is already loaded up and you can just roll on the power, but if not the clutch helps slip some of the hit.

    Best way to learn to wheelie a supermoto is 2nd gear, up a hill with the clutch in my opinion. The biggest mistake people make is to be too high in the revs, especially on underpowered bikes like the wr250 and drz street SMs. Anyone who is riding a 450+ knows you just twist the wrist
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift1313 View Post
    In my opinion, You need to clutch it up if you want to get up to the Balance Point at slower speeds with the RPMs lower. You can't power up the front in 1st or 2nd in a controlled way and keep the speeds low. You said you do and maybe you got it down but 95% of people won't ever be able to on a big single cylinder bike unless its geared to be a stunt bike. On the track to wheelie down the straights just give the bars a little tug and lean back instead of forward then click through the gears Yes i can power wheelie up to the BP in 2nd gear without shifting(typically click 3rd to get it sorted) but thats usually 35mph +. To get a controlled slow wheelie i just don't see how its possible or probably, but thats just my opinion as i am no wheelie guru or anything.

    Also i had a drz for 12years or so. 30k miles of clutch dump wheelies on the stock clutch, starting when it was bone stock and brand new. Never changed it and around 26k miles it still measured in spec. Clutch dumps or rapid clutch pulls aren't as hard on a clutch as slipping/riding the clutch. It also helps takes some of the shock out of the driveline since nearly all the bikes we talk about don't have a cush drive rear. Its much easier on a bike if the chain is already loaded up and you can just roll on the power, but if not the clutch helps slip some of the hit.

    Best way to learn to wheelie a supermoto is 2nd gear, up a hill with the clutch in my opinion. The biggest mistake people make is to be too high in the revs, especially on underpowered bikes like the wr250 and drz street SMs. Anyone who is riding a 450+ knows you just twist the wrist
    Well said. You just made me realize that's it's not all about speed and time but about "control" which is something I didn't really factor in.

    I think you are right in saying the bike will be more stable while clutching and that it would be less erratic than powering it up. Something with which I want to experiment with now that you've said it. Having not clutched a bike up since I was a child on my KX 80, I do fear it, but as you say, that's what hills are for.

    I would like to ask, does having a non-waved rear rotor help with wheelie-braking ? I am just wondering if the reason I struggle to cover the rear is because my rear brake feels like some kind of retarded ABS system- What I mean by that is the calipers pinch the rotor in intervals which feels very inconsistent. Would a non-waved rotor help much in that regard ?

    Cool pic's btw!
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    Wave rotor should have no affect on brake feel. You probably have a warped rotor. The waves are there to allow for pad cooling and offgassing(on oldet style pads)
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift1313 View Post
    Wave rotor should have no affect on brake feel. You probably have a warped rotor. The waves are there to allow for pad cooling and offgassing(on oldet style pads)

    Hmm, well that is worrying. I did some rummaging around the web and found a guy with the same brand rotor who's rotor wasn't warped but rather the thickness tolerances were out. He took it to Galfer and they concluded it was out by as much as .005- apparently this is enough to cause the "pulsing".

    I think this is more likely the issue with my rotor as the pulse intervals are consistently inconsistent if you catch my drift. Feels like it's pulsing multiple times per revolution, whereas a warped rotor usually only pulses once.

    As it happens, I do have a brand new Galfer rotor unopened, so I'll swap them out and see what happens.

    Cheers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelieaddiction View Post
    Hmm, well that is worrying. I did some rummaging around the web and found a guy with the same brand rotor who's rotor wasn't warped but rather the thickness tolerances were out. He took it to Galfer and they concluded it was out by as much as .005- apparently this is enough to cause the "pulsing".

    I think this is more likely the issue with my rotor as the pulse intervals are consistently inconsistent if you catch my drift. Feels like it's pulsing multiple times per revolution, whereas a warped rotor usually only pulses once.

    As it happens, I do have a brand new Galfer rotor unopened, so I'll swap them out and see what happens.

    Cheers!
    That could do it. I had issues on my drz with warp9 front rotors. 2 rotors, both the same thing. Pulsing. I put a floating EBC rotor and was fine. The same rotor that gave me trouble was fine on a yz250f.... When you swap rotors also check the hub where the rotor goes to make sure there isn't a burr or something behind where the rotor goes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift1313 View Post
    That could do it. I had issues on my drz with warp9 front rotors. 2 rotors, both the same thing. Pulsing. I put a floating EBC rotor and was fine. The same rotor that gave me trouble was fine on a yz250f.... When you swap rotors also check the hub where the rotor goes to make sure there isn't a burr or something behind where the rotor goes.
    Now I'm a little concerned. Perhaps I should check the bolts and hub as you suggested before I go swapping out rotors. I never even thought about obstructions between the hub and rotor, but it makes perfect sense. Learn something new every day lol.

    Was there a huge difference in braking performance with the floating rotor over the normal one ? I have an over-sized floater on the front and it stops like a champion, but the back is very meh.

    Cheers!
    Ignorance is my cure for Insanity.

    I don't fear death, only the moments leading up to it.

  35. #483
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    48

    Default

    Finally!!!!

    I have taught my unorthodox brain to cover the rear for wheelies! Oh what a glorious day!

    For quite a while of forcing myself, I thought It would never happen, but like most things persistence was the key! I am now able to go past the balance point with confidence as my foot finally found a path to my brain. Problem still remains that my rear brake is pulsing quite badly, which makes things a bit sketchy when trying to feather them. Checked the bolts on the hub and aligned my wheel perfectly, but the issue is still there. Maybe it's time to switch out rotors after all.

    Still having trouble clutching it up though. Kind of feel like I'm buggering up my clutch just trying. Funny thing is that I can clutch it up easily while in first gear, but in 3rd, which is my sweet spot for wheelies, I can't seem to get the rev-matching right.

    I'm still stoked about the rear brake wheelie action.
    Ignorance is my cure for Insanity.

    I don't fear death, only the moments leading up to it.

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