Super Bikers 1986, the "4-Stroke" Honda Graham rode
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Thread: Super Bikers 1986, the "4-Stroke" Honda Graham rode

  1. #1
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    Smile Super Bikers 1986, the "4-Stroke" Honda Graham rode

    Did anyone here get to attend the 1986 Super Bikers event in Carlsbad CA.

    I am wondering what motor Honda had installed into the team bikes that year. Rainey and Showbert are both riding 1986 production CR500's with the typical (now supermoto) mods, but with no works MX parts visible on them.

    Rickey Grahams bike was running some kind of "Powerful but heavy 4-stroke", as the broadcast commentary said, and that was all that was said about it.

    I've watched the video in slow motion in slow motion, and frame by frame and I can only say that it appears to be a big single, like an XR600 motor, and Honda had some awsomly fast XR600 motors back then.

    I don't see enough space in the CR500 chassis for the 83 and 84 aircooled 750 twin motor, and I also do not see a lot of header pipes everywhere or even enough pipe to suggest a twin exhaust.

    It also looks like Graham might have been on a 1980 "works bike" CR500 chassis (like Wise won on the first year), not sure but it might be. The give away is that the swingarm appears to be the older (80-81 "coke bottle" design)and if so, the rear "pro-link" would have to be all works parts if that swingarm was used, no stock parts would fit up to it or the old works frames if that swingarm was used. Its really difficult to see that swingarm though, but the rear number plates and some small details might also be clues, the videos are so poor that they are not going to answer the questons. Photos would!

    Hope someone can help, I'm sure curious about the only Honda 4-stroke ever being raced in the ABC Super Bikers.

    Moto112

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  3. #2
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    If this is the bike you are thinking about its the honda rs750...



    Quote Originally Posted by crash279 View Post
    When you try to get clearance for the sprocket on the front forks and the axle won't fit is when you know that you've had a few too many lol.

  4. #3
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    Holy 50 pound exhaust pipe Batman! I bet that thing favored left turns.

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  6. #4
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    Default Nope, no gold stars for you guys yet.

    Nope, thats not it. No gold stars for you guys yet.

    Reread the post.

    The chassis was a clearly a Honda 500cc Motocross bike chassis. It could have been wither a production 1986 CR500 or a Works RC500 of 1980 vintage, but the chassis is not important.

    The motor is the only part in question, and I know all about the RS750's, that was not the motor, it would not fit in the chassis.

    Try again, I'm hoping someone has a photo of the bike.

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    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...o.224573522796

    Found a pic on an RG fansite Facebook page although it's not much of a help.

    Was RG Honda sponsored for the '86 race? If he wasn't a Honda rider I'm going to say he used a Rotax engine in the bike as he used them in some of his other street tracker type rides.......

  8. #6
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    Pikes Peak International Hill Climb #123
    Sttars #198
    Supermoto WA #123
    2007 TM 450/530 SMX /// 1999 CR250SM California Plated /// 1998 Husqvarna TE610-SM (gone but not forgotten)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kowalski340 View Post

  10. #8
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    I was there but the only four strokes I remembered were the Protec TT600 singles. Most of the factory guys were on Big Bore two strokes MXers with a dirt track setup.
    Mike
    STTARS 354
    Team Manwhore

  11. #9
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    ok, love me a wild goose chase.. so we are clear on stuff is this the bike in question?

    Quote Originally Posted by crash279 View Post
    When you try to get clearance for the sprocket on the front forks and the axle won't fit is when you know that you've had a few too many lol.

  12. #10
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    and now ill make another post so the ad doesnt block the picture
    Quote Originally Posted by crash279 View Post
    When you try to get clearance for the sprocket on the front forks and the axle won't fit is when you know that you've had a few too many lol.

  13. #11
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    ok here is another pic from the same video



    here is a link to the video its the carlsbad race 1986

    Quote Originally Posted by crash279 View Post
    When you try to get clearance for the sprocket on the front forks and the axle won't fit is when you know that you've had a few too many lol.

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    I'm all flustered...

    The exhaust is on the 'wrong' side for either a Honda or a Rotax lump!

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    Looking at pictures of the older honda cr line up all I can say is I have no clue what bike I'm looking at in the pictures I posted ... The down tubes on the frame dont look like cr, in the second picture the rear swing arm looks like it has one shock on it kinda like the older cr250 dual rear shock bikes only his had just one shock.
    Quote Originally Posted by crash279 View Post
    When you try to get clearance for the sprocket on the front forks and the axle won't fit is when you know that you've had a few too many lol.

  16. #14
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    Default Gold stars for a few of you!

    You guys all did good work on this one, this was not an easy one!

    I now think the chassis is an ATK frame with Honda works tank form either an; 80 or 81 works MX tank. Notice there is only one shock on the bike and its on the right side (shifter side) of the bike, its a single shocker. Thats a ATK "Horst Leitner" thing all the way, its was an ATK chassis.

    F'duponMotards" photos (were all the correct bike) from the super bikers answered most and "Rokoneer"s clear photo of the TT race verified that the bike was used at the TT's also that year. You guys did great!

    Those forks were works Honda only; Showa "Froggies", used from 1981 - 1990 on the Honda MX teams.

    Back to the motor. In the superbikers heat, the still posted above, (taken just in the middle of the short right just after the bridge "under" jump), thats the most telling shot about the motor, its shows a sharp step from the center of the case to the outside level of the case, like there is a really small rotor in there. That feature is a give away, if I could recognize it, but I don't know what it came off of.

    ATK also used Bombardier (Rotax Can-am) motors exclusivley, and looking at it, it probably has twin headerpipe joined on the left side of the motor to a single exhaust megaphone/silencer. Those motors were tall too, and this one looks really tall by the way they had to drop the frame craddle down way low to get the motor in there. It also looks like the old rotax "belt drive" cover on top left side of that motor, but its not clear. That would be used with the old belt drive cam Bombardier (Rotax Can-am) motors they were using.

    All the identified features are ATK from that time.

    I think you guys have this one knocked out, its an ATK with a little Honda jewelry hung onto it for that one special race and the few TT races of that year.
    Moto112 "old guy"
    Last edited by Moto112; 12-29-2010 at 09:03 PM. Reason: edditing

  17. #15
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    Default 18" tires and wheels

    I sure like the original (old school) 18" tires and spoke(!) wheels that the bikes were required to run back then.

    If they still ran those I would like present day super moto a lot more.

    The Factory MX bikes with the "normal" appearing tires and wheels made the bikes look normal in appearace, and super trick at the same time. They were awsome just sitting in the pits.

    To me, the new bikes look, well.. not right after having grown up looking at the older "Super Bikers" rules bikes.

  18. #16
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    good times whats the next challenge?
    Quote Originally Posted by crash279 View Post
    When you try to get clearance for the sprocket on the front forks and the axle won't fit is when you know that you've had a few too many lol.

  19. #17
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  20. #18
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    ATK made frame kits for the xr600's.
    Eddie Sisneros

    Epic Motosports/Sisneros Speed Works 303-485-1858 SSpeedWorks@gmail.com

  21. #19
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    Default pretty sure I got this one...

    Ok... what most of you don't know (and wouldn't)... is that around this time (I believe it was 85 or 86), Honda made a purpose built 500/600 motor. It came with 2 different cylinders obviously (600cc for short track and 500cc for TT, I think??). I'd have to ask my brother. Anyway... they had the RFVC technology and were complete beasts. My brother TJ Houghton (AMA national flat track #36 at the time) and Ronnie Jones (AMA national flat track #16 at the time) both bought one of these Honda engines and put them in Knight frames. I know my brother said the motor numbers on his were something like 00000003. Or whatever. It was the 3rd one. I would just about guarantee this bike was built with one of those motors. Which would explain the 'xr 600' looking motor. Actually... I may ask my brother. He might know right off the top of his head what bike Ricky rode that day. I remember TJ ended up only racing his for maybe one season then sold it to Mike Kidd. I think Team Honda offroad (Chuck Miller specifically) used this same motor setup in one of the Baja races at that time... but now I am *really* going back a few years.
    Last edited by fmr_overall_champ; 06-13-2011 at 12:23 PM. Reason: poor spelling!

  22. #20
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    Default Graham's bike

    Quote Originally Posted by burned View Post
    ATK made frame kits for the xr600's.
    Yes... but I don't think that is what Ricky rode that day. But damn those XR600 ATK kits were *sweet*.

  23. #21
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    fmr_overall_champ

    Let us know what you find out.

    Maybe it was one of the HRC XR600 motors that had all the trick HRC parts with it. Lechien won the big 4-stoke race on it in 84 or 85 I remember.

    Am I correct in my thinking that the AMA flattrack motors have to be homologated? If so the motor would have to be some kind of production cases and cylinder to start with. It could have been from some obscure production single, that we (USA) never saw, and that Honda probably built few of. Maybe it was one of those "rare birds" that was more suited to big HP numbers than the old XR motor was, and that would meet homoligation rules if Honda wanted it to. It could have been one of those I suppose.

    Hum, I wonder. Let us know what you find out.

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  25. #23
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    That is definitely an XR engine.. obviously custom exhaust.
    Perhaps a flat track frame with CR forks and swing arm?
    current bikes:
    2003-4 CRF450(SM)
    1995 XR200(daughters bike)
    KX500SM/RR (sold)
    1994 FZR600-GSXR750 bastard

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