2013 CRF450R supermoto conversion - Page 2
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Thread: 2013 CRF450R supermoto conversion

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raceordie View Post
    Are you thinking of machining the mount extension by any chance. I am in the process of purchasing a set of the FAORs, but I also want to ensure the use of the HPSD to its full functionality, as it had saved my butt a few times on these fast Spanish courses. Otherwise I will likely turn to XTrig for trips.
    The machining process might be a little slow and costly since its not a production piece.
    If you are going to buy the FAOR triples I suggest writing to them and telling that their HPSD mount is 12 milimeters short for 2013 CRF450R.
    They will most likely correct the problem and send you a set that is OK for the original price. It will not be as big of a hassle that way.

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  3. #52
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    Hey guys, thought I would give you a little insight of what I have been doing all this time, so here goes.
    No big and great things were done so far, its all in the to-do list for the next winter.
    What I have been doing though is paying attention to the minor stuff that likes to sum up and give things a better feel in the end.
    I will start with the rear wheel. Since it had to be tilted in order to save the tire from some excessive chain scraping, I figured it's time to produce a spacer!







    Works like a charm
    I hope the rear wheel will email me some thanks later on in the season.

  4. #53
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    So far everything looks in tact so let's clean it all up and make it look good.








    And since it's now looking good, it's ready for the next phase -
    brought the head to this weird office to do a little scanning.







    Lets not forget about the rocker arm. A critical component in determining exh. valve lift and duration.







    And now when the process is complete, it's time for some analysis on the improvement field.
    A quick look at what the valvetrain looks like in digital.



    Here you go. Everything one needs to find out every detail of performance on the current setup.

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  6. #54
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    Andis you are a mad scientist. Love it
    09 HUSQVARNA 450RR
    CRF450SMRR _ Parted out
    Husqvarna510smr_parted out
    CR525AF dirty
    BRP XR650R -traded=(

  7. #55
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    The head is back at my desk, it's time to throw it together and reinstall.
    Valves looking all nice and shiny.







  8. #56
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    The intake runner was one of the areas that needed the most work. The factory trim is not very appealing to the naked eye, so here comes the remedy!















    This is definitely going to help. I have just done this on a SM610S and the difference is worth noting. It will now rev quicker and further.

  9. #57
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    Here's one more thing I would like to show to all of you.
    If you don't want to spend the 300+ euros for the HRC programmer kit, there might be an alternative way to map your bike cheap.
    Here's what I did.

    The pinout!


    How it all looks together!


    What you get!


    Just be sure you buy the right CD-rom for your model and happy programming!!

  10. #58
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    Nice last Saturday




  11. #59
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    Ir was a good first track day for me!

  12. #60
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    Last summer fun event


  13. #61
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    Awesome work, keep it up!

  14. #62
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    Default The research continues

    Hi guys, I am finally back with some more pics to show from my CRF450R project bike.
    Last year we left this topic as the cylinder head and camshaft were pulled off and brought to a laser scanning office.
    The goal of this research was to modify every component of the gas exchange system in order to deliver more power at the top end of the rev range.
    Enjoy.






    As the scanning is done, the ports are finally taking shape. For information - the scanned point cloud or facet body is no use to the operations to follow so it has to be "modeled over". The result was just presented to you.



    This screenshot shows the overlap between the scanned .STL file and the CAD recreation of the ports and combustion chamber. Mean deviation ~ 0.03 mm.

    At this moment enough material has been accumulated to perform a flow simulation and determine the volume flow rate of the ports.
    The CFD simulation will be carried out using a flow bench standard of 12" H2O pressure drop.





    The result is 143 CFM. For comparison, a standard 2013 head flows 128 CFM @ 12" of H2O.

    The manually ported head trumps OEM variant by 11%

    To be continued...

  15. #63
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    The long road to perfection.
    Optimization process of the port shape involves dynamic stretch and skew + CFD simulation to evaluate the results.
    Truthfully, the results are like waves. Ups and downs.
    Main conclusion - the changes that visually seem most appealing are definitely the wrong idea. Just like an optical illusion.





    Try 80th.The result is as shown below.



    Visualisation of the CFD results.




    And, of course, a comparison.



    OEM - 128 CFM
    Previous owner - 143 CFM
    Long road to perfection - 187 CFM = + 46% vs OEM or + 31% vs previous owner.

    An overlap plot of the scanned facet body (red) and the freshly dveloped intake port (grey). The red spots point out to areas where welding will be necessary.


  16. #64
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    I've never seen such in depth porting before. Very informative. Thanks!

  17. #65
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    Port welding.
    I would gladly hear a specialist's opinion about the technology. In the picture below you can see an intake port that has been welded.
    Does anyone know what tech is necessary to pull this off? Welding the intake ports on a 250cc head seems like a piece of art.



    I know there is a guy in the US who does this but he will only present the results and never process.
    Right now two options are considered:

    - epoxy welding (also offered by the top tuning workshops);
    - soldering with Techno-Weld rods.

    After some consulting it was decided that we will try out the soldering option.



    Conclusion:
    The actual result was not as expected but I guess we were being too optimistic since soldering material on both floor and ceiling is a tough challenge. Props to the wiz who did it.

    Regarding the realization process of this research - this was a long time mind boggle but the goals were of course the highest.

    Plan A: this has to be done by a machine
    Plan B: it will be done by hand using all sorts of models and comparison tools.

    I have to admit - Techno-Weld usage was the last impulse to carry out Plan A.
    The hardness of the soldering reaches ~ 93 by Brinel scale. When taking in consideration the thickness of the soldering layer, plan B is getting practically impossible.

    Getting ready for Plan A.

    CAM system is deployed to generate toolpath and couple it with cutting feeds, speeds and positioning.



    The G-code produced is not always perfect so this is when we alter huge amounts of it by creating a secondary program in free-pascal.



    After running the machine simulation we are finally looking at what could be the result of the first porting operation.


  18. #66
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    Tool and equipment.
    We have finally come to the machining process. The tool type as seen below is not exactly right for such a job but it was the best option available at the moment given the resources we had. Traditionally lollipop mills are used but this cylindrical one is just enough to reach the furthest points of the port.



    Next up: machining a jig to fix the head with the option to flip it around without losing positioning. Flipping will be necessary due to the machine type that simply does not support full tool travel in a single setting.



    And of course the support spacers and bushings. Each spacer has it's own calibrated length that was calculated with FARO probe to avoid any human error.
    These lengths are key to preserving the positioning when the head is flipped between operations. The one mistake that was made was to machine these spacers from aluminum but I will get into detail with this as we move on.


  19. #67
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    Time to test the machine code and see how it will materialize itself. The first idea was to start with a wooden block, though it was decided to begin with a piece of plastic foam since damaging the tool and machine is fairly easy to do.
    The amount of G-code is approx. 5 Mb which makes it physically impossible to inspect.
    Let's start up the CNC and munch on the foam a bit, and instantly, you can see why testing is necessary. The first try could not have been more wrong than this.



    But that all likes to change.



    Still, some G-code errors pop up and must be accounted for in the CAM system so that we can continue with the wooden block.
    The main reason for wood is to test how flipping the head around will work out and to see if the cutting speeds and feeds produce any smoke.



    And soon enough, we get something like this. Looking good so far.







    A few imperfections are still popping up, but those can be easily corrected.

  20. #68
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    Wow man.
    That's nice.

    Cool track vid.
    CR125/500 hooligan
    CR450/500 supermoto
    CR480
    RG Gamma
    Too many others to list....

  21. #69
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    CNC headworks:
    Not much left to say here. Whats important has already been described earlier.











    In conclusion:
    Mechanical processing:
    - From intake side - 4 rough cuts + 1 finishing cut ~ 5 hours total.
    - From valveseat side - 4 rough cuts + 1 finishing cut ~ 5 hours total.

    Main factors influencing machining time:
    - thickness of soldering layer
    - soldering hardness
    - tool type
    Last edited by kba-pro; 07-03-2016 at 02:59 AM.

  22. #70
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    Don't smooth the port walls, keep it textured.

    I've used epoxy quite a bit and it works very well.

    Can't wait to see how your changes translate into the power curve. Need a good "before" engine dyno to truly compare.
    Paul
    '08 Pitster X4 "slowtard"
    '03 XR650R
    '06 FZR400 "frankenbike"

  23. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RV Wrench View Post
    Don't smooth the port walls, keep it textured.
    Thanks, that was exactly my plan. The surface roughness (scallop height) is left at 100 microns. Hoping for a slight golf-ball effect here.

  24. #72
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    Digging thrpugh the treasure box to take the head to a local workshop for guide and seat installation.



    And here it is as received back.











    The guide ends are machined manually.

  25. #73
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    When the head flow and cam profiles have been properly analyzed, we are finally ready to build a full mathematical model of the given engine. There are some powerful tools out there designed specifically for this task. They require a whole lot of different specs and evaluating those properly is the key to successfully generating a valid dyno graph. The most basic specs include bore, stroke, rod length and some of the more advanced specs include valvespring rate tables, head flow tables, cam files etc.
    When the graph has been generated, it has to be compared to another valid source. Since we didn't make any runs by ourselves, there is a site called MotoUSA with plenty of different dyno sheets. Here is the comparison between what they have published and we have generated using ONLY a mathematical model.

    2013 CRF450R stock


    You can see the resemblence being quite believable. The slight differences that you are seeing are due to fuel mixture, spark curve and environmental conditions. And of course the allmighty error of math regarding such complex things, which to my surprise, is proving to be somewhat unimportant, since the goal of this virtual simulation is to evaluate the changes brought from every mod, not reaching absolute numbers.

  26. #74
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    Since now it is clear that this method works quite well and the stock baseline is ready, we can start figuring out what advantages are introduced with every upgrade.
    First off, the manually ported cylinder head. You can see that it alone backfires in +11% of power. The highest curve is the condition of the bike as we received it, featuring manually ported head, reground cam and full HGS exhaust system. Backfire screen removed. Result = +15% of power with a noteworthy increase at the high end of the revs.


  27. #75
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    Update: some new curves have been generated.
    - blue curve: OEM engine equipped with the CNC head
    - black curve: CNC head + HGS exhaust system + modified camshaft of unknown origin (found in my engine as bought).



    Both cases provide an improvement, most noteworthy when modifying the other gas exchange components.

  28. #76
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    As of now, we are moving closer and closer to the point where further increase of power demands additional engine capacity. Since doing that is out of the question for now, these two new curves represent the addition of a new, shorter exhaust header and a custom "webcams" camshaft, designed not only for brilliant top end power, but also very reasonable engine life, solid idle, and easy starting, without the necessity to run larger diameter followers.
    Two new curves:

    - Blue: CNC head + modified camshaft + shorter exhaust header
    - Yellow - CNC head + custom "webcams" camshaft + shorter exhaust header


  29. #77
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    I'm new to the site but this build is amazing! Wish I could afford to have parts like these. I'm about to pick up my first supermoto which is a 2006 CRF450. Really wish I could swing the fuel injection.

  30. #78
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    Project header:

    Unfortunatelly since the market does not offer a header with our desired length and taper, we shall build our own. There are of course guys like Ivan Lazzarini that somehow have the priviledge to order something that doesn't exist but that is another story.
    First, and we are already used to it, lets scan the HGS product. The main idea is to fix the entrance and exit in space, so that the rest can be changed.





    The new header must be a uniform taper from the beginning to the end. That defines the necessity to fashion it from sheet metal. The biggest challange is to route it around the frame and under the left radiator while avoiding the coolant lines.
    3D model in progress...



    Fashioning a paper model using 1:1 scale print of the flat-patterns and using a glue gun to stick it all together. The idea is to evaluate how well the above mentioned has been accomplished. And if...



    Obviously there had to be a better way...



    And so a paper model after a paper model...



    Eventually, a result is reached, but it took 8-9 paper models to finally route the middle section of the header around all the obstacles.

  31. #79
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    That is some crazy nice shit!

  32. #80
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    Thanks for all the nice words!

    And so step by step, we have finaly reached a satisfactory result. The length is about OK and radius bends are all going where they should be.











    Conclusion - to decrease the amount of paper modles necessary for this task, the whole surrounding area of the motorcycle should be scanned. We shall return to this later.
    The materialization process of the piece of paper shall continue.

  33. #81
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    Lets start with the header extremes. Unfortunatelly there was no thick-wall tube available from stainless steel, so we had to buy a round bar and simply cut away the inner portion.






  34. #82
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    The laser cutter has done it's job leaving only minor melt-spots which will be corrected manually.
    Two sets have been cut so that one of them can be fed to the hogs right away without too much regret.



    Rolling the freshly cut flat-patterns.







    Every segment must be catch-welded and rolled twice in order to obtain a near-perfect round shape. Rolling them only once will provide an egg-shape but that is enough for the catch-weld operation.



    Grinding away the melt-spots of the laser cutter and checking for compatibility between individual segment couples.



    Scotchweld.



    HGS vs unwelded DIY.


  35. #83
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    Andis you are a mad scientist
    09 HUSQVARNA 450RR
    CRF450SMRR _ Parted out
    Husqvarna510smr_parted out
    CR525AF dirty
    BRP XR650R -traded=(

  36. #84
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    And so, before welding the thing together, one last thing thats left is the head flange. Cranking up the big old CNC for that.









    Operation welding. Though it was initially considered to provide the least amount of problems, turns out everything else was a whole lot easier. Except welding.
    Initially we had our eyes on a true TIG master but to our disappointment, it was not possible to organize the process. Anyway, props to his test-seams. The best we have seen.



    We have to look elsewhere for an experienced TIG welder.

  37. #85
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    This is gonna be awesome!

  38. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by equalz View Post
    Andis you are a mad scientist
    Hi Man, how are you?? Nice to see you here

  39. #87
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    All is good brother, just looking through your thread and really impressed by your passion and craftsmanship. Very impressive.
    09 HUSQVARNA 450RR
    CRF450SMRR _ Parted out
    Husqvarna510smr_parted out
    CR525AF dirty
    BRP XR650R -traded=(

  40. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by equalz View Post
    All is good brother, just looking through your thread and really impressed by your passion and craftsmanship. Very impressive.
    Thanks! Always glad to see some opinion.

    And so, competition, competition... There are two candidates to weld this stuff together.

    Candidate A:



    Candidate B:



    I guess we shall use option B.









    Taking thermal deformation into account, we had to deliver the bike at the workshop to fit together three segmented blocks.



    And finally, general view of a completed header.



    Big thanks to the guy who pulled it off - Igor.

  41. #89
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    Always go with plan C.

    We must...We must...increase our boost

  42. #90
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    Just had to toss that up there because, well just because it is awesome.

    Your project as a whole is frigg'n awesome.

  43. #91
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    A sneak-peek into the treasure chest.







    Engine assembly:
    The hour-meter was indicating 68 hrs before the great dismembering. Even though it was clear what we had the engine go through, we did not have the slightest idea if the previous owner had agreed with our opinion on correct usage and maintenance so we are better off installing everything new.
    Buying the internals in both OEM and AEM definitions in USA.








  44. #92
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    Sorry for the hold-back guys.
    Continuing on the assembly!







    The second major investment - Xceldyne valvetrain:
    - single-piece titanium valves
    - titanium retainers
    - heavy-duty valvesprings
    - berillium-copper valveseats
    - bronze valveguides

    Why Xceldayne?
    - Brilliant lifespan / weight proportion. This becomes critical for those who plan on keeping the engine in the upper rev range.
    - Excellent thermal conductivity
    - Minimal wear. Xceldyne does not fail even after lapping the valves. Valve lash is practically frozen in time. Except for cases where oil changes have been skipped. We have used this setup on 2008 CRF and have never adjusted the valve lash or discovered any abnormalities in the valvetrain that would soon indicate the end of it.



    A few weight comparisons:








  45. #93
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  46. #94
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    Custom camshaft from WebCam - third greatest investment from "cashflow" standpoint.
    I have to admit the existing (modified OEM) cam profile is very good which is only further supported by the simulations, but we shall replace it anyways because of the following reasons.
    - as explained previously, the aggressive lobes posess noteworthy self-destructing properties (they wear out very fast). This is probably because the hard layer of the lobes was grinded away. The consequences were clearly visible.
    - The aggressive profile is very hard on the valves and rockers, decreasing the life span of seats, guides and retainers.
    - Great risk of valve float at higher RPMs.
    - The dyno curve must be suited for supermoto, producing linear pull that peaks almost at the top of RPM range.

    By using the simulation data we chose the valve lift, duration and centerlines to reach the desired goal. We then had to choose from a list of available WebCams grinds to find the closest match and specify the centerlines.
    If we were to order our own grind, the costs would double. Props to Laurie@webcamshafts.com, the communication was excellent!
    To be honest, this is not the most powerful cam at all, there are a lot more grinds that require larger diameter followers and due to the massive overlap will be hard to start and idle. The costs will of course skyrocket for setups like those. But the cam we order shall combine the best from all worlds - easy starting, fair idle, not the best but very great power up top.

    We also ordered 2008 style cam gear with slots to mess around with retard/advance if needed.





  47. #95
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    Continuing on the assembly, first to measure the required shim thicknesses.




    Setting the adjustable APE cam gear to 0 deg advance.



    To make sure of the valve-to-piston clearance we are using a mechanical and rather simple method.





    Clearance passed!







    And engine complete.

  48. #96
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    This just keeps getting better and better

  49. #97
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    If I was an air filter, this is what I'd be seeing looking at the engine



    And finally, after blessing her with a bunch of holes in the side panels and getting rid of the airbox lid, she is ready for a test ride.





    Thanks to everyone who has been paying attention / giving valuable advice / cheering / saying good stuff.
    The actual dyno test is pending, not so easy to schedule it. When it is available I will make sure to post the results but the build is done for now, but she will get even more upgrades as the next season comes! Stay in touch.
    Last edited by kba-pro; 08-04-2016 at 09:49 PM.

  50. #98
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    Yay, wheelie time.

  51. #99
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    Jihaaaaa!

    Want to see some movies now .. and ofcourse the dyno run

  52. #100
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    Epic!!!

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