xr650r cast wheels (writeup)
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Thread: xr650r cast wheels (writeup)

  1. #1
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    Default xr650r cast wheels (writeup)

    I owe a lot to Kubiak for his write up for doing cast wheels for a sumo- I would like to ask questions while working on mine as well as adding to the collective knowledge of the group. so here are some prelim. pics of my rear wheel. The wheels comes off a '94 CBR600F2 and is going on a '00 XR650R.

    The questions, on the drive side...
    How much material is taken off past the plane where the sprocket mounts? I am guessing this is where i will make up a good chunk of the sprocket-to disc separation. (I'll post a pic with measurements)

    Are the studs threaded in or press fit in? I read that you need to heat them and pull them out- but it was unclear if they were threaded in.

    How do you get the cush drive concentric to the wheel? the 3rd bearing is going to be removed so you can't use the axle...??? i would think minor differences are going to make the sprockets and chain wear faster, major differences could cause a chain jump...

    Questions on the Disc Side...
    Removing all noted 'lips' should get the wheel all the way over to the disc side.

    Do I need to remove the lip around that outer bearing race?

    The bolts that hold the disc on have some non-threaded thickness. do i need to cut into this to move the wheel over some more?


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  3. #2
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    you got the right idea.the studs are threaded in,i heated the hub and used vise grips to get them out.i dont have my 4.5 wheel anymore that i machined and the xr 650r might be a little different but heres what i can help with.first shave off a 1/4 inch off the brake rotor side lip then shave off the bearing seal lip flush with the bearing.then the rotor bolts have a shoulder on them and you can counter sink the bolt holes so the shoulder seats all the way down.i used a drill bit to do it.then that should be it for the rotor side.now put the wheel into the swingarm with the brake caliper arm in place and a washer between the wheel and the brake bracket.then see how much you need to take off the face of the cushdrive so the sprocket aligns where the original sprocket was.mine was just a feww mms from the side of the swingarm.then have the cushdrive milled off,then weld the cushdrive to the wheel.when you weld it make sure you spin the wheel to make sure the cushdrive is straight then weld it up.i didnt weld all the way around but you can if you want.then cut a spacer to take up the room between the swingarm and the sprocket.i used bolts for the sprocket that i grinded the head down till it fit with clearance from the swingarm.its pretty tight but i actually cut a little off the lip of the swingarm to clear the bolt heads.you will see what i mean when you place it in there.hope this helps.let me know if you have anymore questions.thanks!

  4. #3
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    Sorry guys for the death of this thread for a month, but had some travelling to do... so anyways, the pictures that i have promised with some measurements.

    I have to get the disc and drive into the 5.804" spacing

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  6. #4
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    The swing arm has 6.648" spacing, this number will give me a ballpark on what kind of spacers i will need. It seems the best way to get exact will be fitting it will some washers.

  7. #5
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    Measuring from the disc side, I can remove 0.26" at minimum, I'll likely to remove more, to try to get to the stock sprocket-disc spacing.

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    The cush drive has a bunch of material that can be removed, and also, i noticed that the center has to be machined so that i can get the sprocket side bearing out if it ever needs to be replaced...

  9. #7
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    Default Keep updating this thread with pics

    Please keep updating with pics. It is a great help for us!

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    remember when you are measuring, to measure the space between the brake side swingarm and the chain line, not the swingarm side to side measurement only because the wheel will have to be centered between the chain and the right side of the swingarm.hope this helps some!

  11. #9
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    Also remember to cut down the spacer that goes inbetween the rim and cushdrive. You need this to keep the side loads off the bearings.

    R
    2004 KTM450 SX supermotarded
    2003 Honda 600RR Race

  12. #10
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    Hey g1k, i'm not sure if i'm following. the order as i understand it would be (left to right)

    swing arm, spacer (size TBD), bearing in rim, spacer in rim, bearing in rim, spacer (size TBD), caliper, swingarm.

    there is another bearing and spacer in the cush drive that will be lost because of the machining. is this the spacer you are talking about?

    thanks for the feedback guys...

  13. #11
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    Oh yeah- a BBQ grill works great for heating this thing up to pull the threaded studs out. I cranked up the grill to high, left the piece in there for 15 minutes. Pulled it out with some pliers. I was trying to figure out what the best way to hold this thing- worked out just stepping on it- and some vice-grips grabbing the studs. When you do this- you can tell when the piece has cooled too much, the studs get very hard to turn. Drop it back in the grill and walk away for 10 minutes... It took me 4-6 heating-turning cycles to get them all out... You will melt the bottom of your shoes, and be sure to knock the cush drive bearing out before you put in in the grill... I cleaned the thing with some degreaser first, the washed it thoroughly - didn't want to get a fire going ya know....

  14. #12
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    Here's the numbers -
    Total width of the F2 wheel, no cush, to the un-machined face of the disc-to-rim mounting plane.
    5.387

    By milling the plane the disc mount's to i can get at minimum- maybe a bit more... (see pic in post #5)
    -0.26" (-0.30 works)

    So that puts me at
    5.127"

    This allow me 0.677" for the cush drive to keep the same spacing. I will try to gain a bit more on the disc side, machining as deep as I can. This will allow as much material left on the cush drive. I think the 0.677 is getting very close to the gussets that are cast into the cush. I would like to keep as much material around the sprocket bolts as possible. I'll get a better picture of this when I get home tonight. (look close and you can see the pencil marks. - there are 2 those are the tolerance marks +-0.025)

  15. #13
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    My .02. We measured sprocket mounting face to rotor mounting face on my

    F3 rim and the stock rim, then machined the F3 rim so it matched the dirt rim.

    We kept the distances relative to the center line of the dirt wheel, while keeping

    in mind the dirt wheel can be offset. The we made spacers to put the CBR wheel in the

    correct spot. We drilled and tapped the

    cush drive to accept low head allen screws to mount the sprocket.

    http://www.mcmaster.com/ catalog page 2977

    We drilled/tapped and fitted inserts on the rotor side so that I could use the bolts

    from the XR to mount the rotor on the CBR rim.

    Biggest difference between mine and yours is we kept the cush drive operable.

    I let you know how that turns out. Hope the rotor/sprocket mounting helps.

  16. #14
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    Default Help

    Could someone post pics for a cbr wheel mod for a XR650L Please

  17. #15
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    well, if anyone has been watching this thread- you may have noticed the utter stop to it. i am stuck, anyone in Las Vegas know of a good shop to take the wheel to? it kindda sucks, only 100yds away in the same building im sitting right now there is a brand new lathe and mill... but no... no outside work, and you have to be 'authorized' to do work... that's all for now, let me know if anyone is knows of a shop

  18. #16
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    here are some pics of the f3 front wheel and cbr 900rr 5.5 rear with the cushdrive cut and welded direct to the hub.

  19. #17
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    i used a rear wheel from a kawasaki kr1250,which has only a 1mm difference between the disc face and sprocket face compared to the standard yz wheel.By machining lip off sprocket carrier i was able to retain that as well,also had wheel machined to take yz bearings and rear disc same diameter as yz item,with new spacers it all fits and lines up perfectly.i wouldn,t have thought an xr was much different in terms of dimensions
    Back again on a Husky 610

  20. #18
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    kubiak in the ver last reply you show a pic of the rear rotor with the machined surfaces. Thos bolts that are holding the rotr, Are they the stock bolts with the "shoulder" on them?

    This is where I'm having a problem, my bolts are bottoming out from the shoulder onto the hub before the rotor is even becoming tight. I though maybe some shims would work, but that way you did it looks very professional.

  21. #19
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    on on wheel i had the shoulder lathed off shorter then the last two wheels i just countersunk the holes with a drill bit till the bolts seated all the way.hope this helps!

  22. #20
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    Default RE: cast wheels

    This is a great thread for anyone interested in adapting cast wheels;I'm following along,too,because I plan to do a similar mod for my CR500....

    Thanks guys.

    Sam in IN

  23. #21
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    I too am following along. I have a set of F2 wheels that I am now really seriously concidering adapting to my DRZ SM. I have the whole parts bike for sale, but nobody seems to want them, so I figured, since I got em, I might as well use them.
    Has anyone done this to a DRZ?
    When done it will hopefully look similar to this.

  24. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJoe
    I too am following along. I have a set of F2 wheels that I am now really seriously concidering adapting to my DRZ SM. I have the whole parts bike for sale, but nobody seems to want them, so I figured, since I got em, I might as well use them.
    Has anyone done this to a DRZ?
    When done it will hopefully look similar to this.
    I am close to installing a set of F3 wheels on my DRZ400S. It's a question of waiting for the wheels as they are in the mail, so to speak.

    A write up will be posted once details and pics are available.

    Cheers!

    JT

  25. #23
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    c'mon jon......whatcha waitin for?

    lets get that thing on the road foo.


    hehe

  26. #24
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    ha you use your first post to give me shit...

  27. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJoe
    I too am following along. I have a set of F2 wheels that I am now really seriously concidering adapting to my DRZ SM. I have the whole parts bike for sale, but nobody seems to want them, so I figured, since I got em, I might as well use them.
    Has anyone done this to a DRZ?
    When done it will hopefully look similar to this.
    I'll bet the F2 wheels will look great on a DRZ. I have almost completed adapting a set of GS500 rims to mine and it wasn't too much trouble. Still have a few things to wrap up but here's what it looks like.




  28. #26
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    sorry for the long delay everyone, i've had alot going on. but here's the update- well, maybe just some pics of the wheel i just picked up. I am going to fit the wheel in the swing arm before i list the measurements.

    the pics.
    showing how much was milled off the cush drive

    showing the back side of the cush drive -- this has to be the first thing cut, so that you have a reference surface for keeping it flat.

    cush drive thickness

    showing rotor side...

    i'll get some final measurements, and the spacer sizing hopefully later this week. but it's a busy week so no promises.

  29. #27
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    Sorry for bringing up an old post, but I figured I would help out by adding this bit of info for any one trying this mod.

    heres the link, the last page has the spacer dimensions for the F# wheel, the front was alittle different than most are going to be dealing w/.

    http://www.4strokes.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25456

    I do have to thank Kubiak for alot of what I accomplished, w/out him I don't know where I'd be????
    http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...56103_n1-2.jpg
    you just got passed a dirtbike with slicks

  30. #28
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    I am starting the process of fitting Seca II wheels to my 03 ktm 450sx. Should be able to get into the machine shop next Sat I hope. These wheels are pretty narrow and look like there might not be as much work involved as some other wheels. We shall see. I will try to get a bunch of photos and upload them when we are done.

  31. #29
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    Sweet, I want to see the end product. Get them painted KTM orange, black with an orange stripe on the lip, or a combo of orange and black. That would look bad ass.

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    I wish someone would offer the conversion for this. Send in your wheels and get them back to fit your XR650R. I just moved to a new state and don't have a clue where any good machine shops are. Anyone know anybody in the Austin area??

  33. #31
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    welcome to texas ! sorry " now back to your program "
    XR6500R SM/DS

  34. #32
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    Trigun,
    If you're looking for a good machine shop; go to a car/motorcycle customization shop. They will know who can get the job done right.

  35. #33
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    Been out riding it 4 or 5 times now.



    Cush drive still operable.


    Impotence....Boomerang....I'll stab you
    Clumps of hair....In the sink....Who's hiding....Things from me?
    It's not funny my ass is on fire.

  36. #34
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    Very cool!

  37. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by svmango
    Been out riding it 4 or 5 times now.



    Cush drive still operable.



    Bike looks great!! What do you think about the cush drive? Was it worth it to keep it functional, or is there no difference in feeling at all? Did you change the rear wheel bearingss or make a sleeve for the axle? Also, what front rotor are you running? It doesn't look like a stock F3 rotor. I've heard people using the stock rotor have to flip it backwards.

    Thanks

  38. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIGUN
    Bike looks great!! What do you think about the cush drive? Was it worth it to keep it functional, or is there no difference in feeling at all? Did you change the rear wheel bearingss or make a sleeve for the axle? Also, what front rotor are you running? It doesn't look like a stock F3 rotor. I've heard people using the stock rotor have to flip it backwards.

    Thanks

    What do you think about the cush drive? Was it worth it to keep it functional,

    So far, no. It's no smoother than the stock wheels. Maybe worse. I'm going to

    try new cush rubbers. If that doesn't help, I'm going to weld it.

    Did you change the rear wheel bearingss or make a sleeve for the axle?

    Xr650R rear axle and CBR-F3 rear axle are the same size.

    Also, what front rotor are you running?

    Moto-Master rotor and caliper-Brembo master cylinder-Hel custom brake line ($48)

    We made an adaptor to fit the rotor to the wheel.









    The front wheel spacers are also sleeves for the bearings





    Ride report

    http://klrworld.com/forums/index.php/topic,3324.0.html
    Impotence....Boomerang....I'll stab you
    Clumps of hair....In the sink....Who's hiding....Things from me?
    It's not funny my ass is on fire.

  39. #37
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    Wow!! Thanks for the excellent pics. That's what I wanted to see. What is the piece in the center of the rear sprocket? Any pics of the back wheel spacers and the rear brake side?

    Thanks

  40. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIGUN
    Wow!! Thanks for the excellent pics. That's what I wanted to see. What is the piece in the center of the rear sprocket? Any pics of the back wheel spacers and the rear brake side?

    Thanks
    The piece in the center keeps the cush from sliding off. It is bolted to the wheel

    Hub. I used the drawings from this site.

    http://www.scott-world.com/XR650R/

    BUT, keeping the cush drive operable takes a lot of work. Knowing what I know

    now, I would save the time and weld it. At Scott world, he put the entire

    CBR front end on his, I had to machine the dust seal lips off the front wheel

    to get it to fit in the XR forks.

    The spacer for the rear brake side is the thickness of a washer. We turned those

    out of aluminum (we made two extra). We had the front and rear wheels on

    a lathe several times. It is a BIG lathe.

    Impotence....Boomerang....I'll stab you
    Clumps of hair....In the sink....Who's hiding....Things from me?
    It's not funny my ass is on fire.

  41. #39
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    Thanks! that really helps. I think I'll be welding the cush. I have a CRF450 front end on my bike so I don't think I'll need to make any axle sleeves for the front. Still deciding what to do about the front rotor. I like your idea with the adapter for the Motomaster set up. Now I just need to find a good machine shop around here. Wanna sell one of those extra spacers for the rear??

  42. #40
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    yesterday i found out that the width of an f2 rear works with the 650r. 1 stock spacer on the drive side and 1 washer (approx 1.5mm thick) on the brake side. it goes between the wheel bearing and the rear brake caliper. there are steel wear plates that are screwed onto the swing arm- you have to take 1 of them off. this is where the extra 1.5 mm comes from so that you can use a stock 650r wheel spacer. i'll post some pics when i get the wheel back from the welders.

    i'm glad this thread is still alive- i'll finish the write up.. really...

  43. #41
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    hey guys, i need pics of some front caliper brackets. i'm stuck, the one that i made - i really don't like.

    or

    does anyone have 1 320mm front disc for a cbr f2 wheel that they would want to sell off?

    (f2 have dual front rotors, so a kit, i would guess, comes with dual disc- hence you'll have an extra laying around)

  44. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnym_xrr

    does anyone have 1 320mm front disc for a cbr f2 wheel that they would want to sell off?
    Fleabay.



    And Trigun. My spacers would probably not work for you. The chances that

    all your other measurements would be exactly like mine are slim to none.

    Plus it's about the cheapest part of the whole build, so the time and ,money

    it would save would be negligble.
    Impotence....Boomerang....I'll stab you
    Clumps of hair....In the sink....Who's hiding....Things from me?
    It's not funny my ass is on fire.

  45. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by svmango
    And Trigun. My spacers would probably not work for you. The chances that all your other measurements would be exactly like mine are slim to none.

    Just thought I'd check. I figured all the measurements would be the same since you're trying to duplicate the stock hub measurements with the F3 wheels. I finally found a couple machine shops in my area, but none of them have a lathe that's big enough. I'll have to keep looking, or maybe just ship it somewhere to get done.

  46. #44
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    Hey Trigun,

    the guy that milled my front and rear didn't use a lathe- just a knee mill. i saw the way he mounted it to the table, - a couple of blocks against the edge of the rim, and the hub was nice and flat against the table.

    - i think it was a bridgeport series 2- nothing too uncommon...

    good luck

  47. #45
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    Ah, I've been asking around for a lathe big enough for a wheel.

    Thanks!

  48. #46
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    my neighbor used a mill to cut my rear wheel and cushdrive for me.he had a lathe but used the mill for some reason.

  49. #47
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    will these tires work for a crf450r 2004????

  50. #48
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    Default finally

    wow, 7 months to finish this project. and what a project it was...

    i got everything put together, and it is fantastic.

    here are some pics so to see what this think looks like finished.

    -overall, the rear fender is fugly. front number plate needs help

    -front wheel spacers, steel tubing, cut to size with a tubing cutter, and then filed to exact dimension.

    -rear wheel, caliper side, washer as the spacer, the other side uses one of the stock spacers.

  51. #49
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    Default oops....

    i went for a ride and felt something 'clunking' i thought that it could have been the transmission, and hoping that i didn't mess something up. "is this what running no cush drive feels like?" well, nope- broken welds... it rode suprisingly well for not having the sprocket welded to the wheel... it did a number on the swing arm though...:-(

    so that's it from me for this write up- let me know if yo ahve any questions. i gotta say the XR is hella fun with road wheels, now- something to do about the seat....

  52. #50
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    Interesting writeup, good info.

    Anybody know how these sportbike wheels compare to regular spoked rims in weight?

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