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Turbo XR650R w/USD forks conversion.... for now

210K views 234 replies 78 participants last post by  proz07 
#1 ·
Hey guys its time to start this build i think and this thread will hopefully be a good center for discussion on it and a cesspool of ideas that will spawn one hell of a BRP i hope. sorry to all you droolers out there this build will be as i go and acquire parts and ideas along the way.

First things first the patient will be an 05' xr650r i picked up converted and plated 75% decorked and barely enough wiring to call it legal.




Now the plan....

USD forks conversion

RAD MFG hubs and excel wheels to replace the talons. red hubs and spoke nipples on black excels 5" in the rear (I will be selling the talon/excel combo 1000$ look for FS ad)

RE-wound stock stator for 200ish watts ran through a mosfet reg/rec for DC power and BATT (reasons as follows)

HID lighting from BUELL xb12r projectors in a custom made headlight housing i will be fabbing. Im thinking this will end up looking somethink like a transformer from the front lol

GT15 TURBO looking for tripple digits on the ponies for this which will require some engine mods to be determined exactly what later. most likely carrillo rod and port polish with hot cams 1 i think as the turbo will make up for the top end.

FUEL INJECTION via microsquirt but that will be wayyyyy down the road and most likely on the second variation of turbo kit. besides they are out of stock till at least aug.





IT starts I have already procured the USD crf450r forks and tag triples w/ conversion bearing to make the triples plug and play to the xrr head.


I have also procured the gt1544 to start fabing for that little beauty. I think i will be installing it towards the rear of the bike right at the beginning of the muffler as there is enough room and moves the weight farther back as the BRP is a bit nose heavy as it is.



my first thoughts were to mount it as close to the head as possible for ease but the turbo i have still runs the gt12 inlet flange and not the t2 flange which would be perfect to fab a manifold for 1.5" runners right down its throat next to the left radiator. but alas that may end up in BRP-T 2.0 :anim_peep:



So as you can see nothing is started yet she still runs strong the bike has a presumable 3000ish miles on her and looks like it very pristine waiting to be modded. For starters ill be doing the USD fork conversion while im doing more testing for the turbo cooling system and getting the rest of my required parts and pieces.

So any ideas or suggestions shoot em out lets make this beast scream :arsenal


LOOKING FOR!!!! PM me on any of this!

any stock vehicle intercooler that the pressure runners are 7-9" long and no more than 2" thick that i can cut down and make an intercooler for.

front axle w/ nut CRF450 06' or any year that will fit. hell if you have a front 21" wheel with it even better at the right price.

gt12 turbo inlet flanges and exit flanges.... if not ill just make em itll give me an excuse to use the plasma cutter more :thumbup:

and like i said any suggestions along the way.

z
 
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#32 ·
Wow no kidding? 120hp is quite a bit for a 300 pound bike!

I was thinking about this today as I worked on my bike. I wonder if a drawthrough setup with the turbo where the carb sits would work. I know there are drawbacks to drawthrough, I just wonder if it would actually spool well, and fuel well. I know that usually blowthrough needs to have a pressure reservoir to even pulses.
 
#33 ·
H
LOOKING FOR!!!! PM me on any of this!

any stock vehicle intercooler that the pressure runners are 7-9" long and no more than 2" thick that i can cut down and make an intercooler for.
dont have one for you but look at subaru WRX top mounts. they are very wide and short. high quality oem pieces with strong end tanks. also I believe saab ones are fairly small but they kinda suck and some have plastic end tanks which does you no good for modding.
 
#34 ·
well actually the stock RX-7 one i had also had plastic end tanks but instead of un crimping it i tried to cut them off with my bandsaw..... ended up putting off the sealing plate too. but i was interested in subie ones i just need to get some more dimensions. Oh and ill be fabing my own endtanks and cutting it down to size. the joys of having your own TIG welder ;)


And Ill have an update here in a day or two for ya guys out there wondering when shes gonna get forward movement.

z
 
#35 · (Edited)
Heres a few of the parts i got in theres more and the rest of these all over right now but heres the major ones.

And my new mascot for the BRP....



Here is the QTM cast radial brembo with bracket.



And heres the beautiful machining they do to make the caliper fit.... but its not enough for spoked rims so i will have to do a bit more.



z
 
#36 ·
Heres a few of the parts i got in theres more and the rest of these all over right now but heres the major ones.

And my new mascot for the BRP....



Here is the QTM cast radial brembo with bracket.



And heres the beautiful machining they do to make the caliper fit.... but its not enough for spoked rims so i will have to do a bit more.



z
I have the same caliper... I was going to machine alittle more also, but when I removed the pistons to check the thickness it was already pretty thin so I couldnt use the caliper... so, I would say check it before you chop on it...
 
#41 ·
being that issue looks like its fixable.... I also got a chance to play with the rear wheel as well. It's a wide tire thats for sure but it will fit after i adjust the spokes a little. Fasterusa said they dished the rims so they dont have chain rub. Well ya they do but not so it will fit in the swingarm as well. it probably wouldnt be an issue with like a 4.25 but with the 5" that im using and the super wide BT-016 160 its rather snug and dished this way rubs the swingarm but plenty of space on the chain side. Sooo i will adjust the spokes back the other way so it will fit in the swingarm and just clear the chain. its going to be tight but should look awesome and perform wiht the HP goals on this bike.

rotor going on with new hardware.


sprocket and cush drive.


brake side rub


chain side space


Also started disassembling the front end for the CRFUSD swap and front wheel install.

z
 
#42 ·
USD conversion

So here's the USD fork conversion with a fleabay 06 CRF fork and triple setup i picked up and the conversion is accomplished via an evolution suspension conversion bearing as seen in the following pic. It comes with as far as i can tell the machined race a custom smaller bearing, 2 different sized washers, and a dust seal.

so near as i could tell with what worked and didnt the kit comes with extra as it is used for the XRL usd conversion as well you just need two of them one top and one bottom. so the dust seal is for the bottom i reused the CRF top dust seal. And i only used the thicker washer on top of the bearing to get the space right to use the dust seal, i can only assume the other washer and dust seal are to do the XRL lower bearing conversion.



the parts not used



race installed



bearing then thick washer, notice it gives enough room for the dust seal to actually be useful.



now the seal and lower triple nut.



and then upper triple clamp and forks.



This is the simplest form of this conversion i think as all it is is swapping out one bearing unless you go anal and do every bearing and new parts but I dont buy new unless its toast. So cost of the CRF triples and forks you source then 60$ for the conversion bearing 120$ if doing an XRL. pretty cheap if you ask me.

z
 
#43 ·
Z, I don't know if you have stated above, but are you going to Brace the Rear End when you get to that part of the build. I am getting ready to tackle this and was wondering what you had in mind. As of now, I am going to make a support alot like the ones I've seen on the Web, bolts to the Sub Frame and then bolts to the Tail. I would like to make something that had a Tag Support as well. I didn't know if I should make two and hook a brother up, or if you had a better idea or if you even had thought about it yet. It is one thing that drives me crazy about the bike and street duty, she flopps around like a dead fish and looks like Shit. T
 
#44 ·
I think i know what your talking about, the cargo support type brackets that bolt to the back of the subframe right? i have been thinking about it eventually as id like to add a cargo rack too for the weekend trips so im open to the idea, but I also have my own TIG welder, plasma, yada yada for making it out of aluminum. what were your ideas for it, material and so on maybe we can come up with a sweet setup to make together.

z
 
#45 ·
I have access to a full Machine Shop, so we can do whatever we can creativley come up with. I was going to use metal and then paint Flat Black, but Aluminium would be much less weight. I did see on Ebay the other day a Rack for the 650R, but it wasn't much of a Rear Tail Support just really a rack that bolted into the SubFrame. I'll start kicking it around and let you know if I make any progress, I figure you have enough Fab Work to last a few months on your project, but if you spring a good idea let me know. T
 
#47 ·
And got a bit more work done on the pig. Front wheel installed and test fitting of the brembo cast 4 piston caliper that is not usable on spoke wheels....INSTALLED!

wheel installed bracket on



heres how i started checking where the spokes were hitting.



and the finished sanded down caliper that does not hit the spokes.



And on once sanded with some 1000+ grit whatever was laying around you can barely tell.



And here it is installed and rotating. and as you can see started venturing into the wiring mess from the PO so it got to the point i just started cutting and slashing it out as ill be starting over on it.



Now I need to order a few parts.

1/2" master from a quad kfx or the like as it has an external brake switch not the junk pressure switches.
fuse box and relays probably a painless kit as it will make wiring super easy.
and numberouse little OEM bolts that i dont have.... stupid things are expensive!!


and all of this couldnt be accomplished with out my shop help

 
#49 ·
So i was able to pike up a spoke wrench today and turned the spokes 1 turn to get the desired effect, unfortunately once i through the straight edge on the sprocket turns out i only needed it turned 1/4 turn to get dead nut in between the chain and sprocket.



and once it was all adjusted and aligned there is literally enough room for a piece of paper on either side! now this should be the largest tire that will end up back there so it shouldnt be an issue i do expect minor chain rub but nothing to worry about and nothing on the rim.



Now i bought a 120 link chain so it obviously needed shortening so for anyone thats never done it heres how without a chain breaker but its the same principle. First grind down one rivet head like so.



Then a punch and a vice setup to press the pin out like so.



and coming out.



and one shortened chain.



Now with the wheel on and the chain shortened the stock XRR chain guid will not work as it will hit the rim. so after cutting down the guide some people use a chain roller and i may eventually but for now its on the cheap using the stock slider block with one bolt and a pin through a drilled hole to keep it from rotating.

how I cut it.



Where the pin is installed.



And installed on the bike with my new chain! :) shitty part is i ordered a clip style and received a rivet style. so now i am waiting for the clip style to come in. the chain is a clored EK 520MVXZ this chain is super WIDE BTW it seems i feel th need to get everything to work with the widest stuff so later on it will only have more room. lol For anyone wondering the color looks painted on so we will see how long it lasts. just wanted a little different and more accents. Im sure the color will stay on the main body so it should look decent for quite some time.



Hoping to get more done soon time will tell.

z
 
#52 ·
very cool bike indeed. I was working on a turbo sport bike until recently when i found out turbos arent vintage legal:) On your XRR the only thing(well not the only thing but the main challenge with singles) is the pressure building up on the back of the intake valve. Since its a single once the valves are shut there is a massive pulse that goes back to the turbo since it doesnt have 3 more cylinders to attack. For the Cams i dont think you need a stage1 setup. Typically the turbo will like less lift and more duration. different overlap than with a built NA motor. Running high performance NA cams is going to kill it.
 
#53 ·
Yes, this has always been a topic of discusion for the single cylinder bikes where in the lower RPM ranges there are very few pulses to drive the turbo as well as what you mentioned only having one intake stroke as opposed to 4 every 2 revs. But when you think about it they work together when you only have one intake stroke you also only have one exhaust pulse. I hate to say it this way but that kind of evens itself out and you wont have as much of an issue with the compressor surge.... that being said I'd hate to see an RPM datalog of the compressor wheel. lol So will it be hard on the turbo without a doubt but most modern turbos can take quite a bit of abuse and with BOV's and wastgates we try and minimize this. The turbo will last long enough for me between needing rebuilds or replacments im sure.

For the cam i understand and have no intention of trying any custom grinds in fact id almost be willing to bet the stock cam will net the best results for low end grunt still and the turbo will make up for it on the high end raming air in the cylinder but from what i was reading the stage 1 adds a touch to the midrange while minimizing loss down low and once again the turbo would make up the high end. Ill see what works out best once shes running and i can get some good testing which is going to net best for turbo lag and power prior to boost hopefully getting a smooth enough transition that the bike wont be completely INSANE to ride.

Thanks for the discusion most people dont know a lot about turbos apps but this info may help them.

keep it comin guys i like constructive critisizm and ideas

z
 
#54 ·
i agree with everything you said there :D I have seen one or two turbo crf450x motors. the only one that survived(fsae) was pretty built and they ended up with some really heavy valve springs. From what i understood the single cylinder issue was the high pressure at high rpms actually was floating the valves long enough to cause failure. I think i saw one valve that broke, partially from really high egts. It sounds like you have a good plan laid out. I almost feel like more valves with smaller diameter would work out better. Im just thinking the actual valve area compared to say a 600cc inline 4 motor is astronomical. maybe(hopefully) it wont be an issue and i would love to see this thing running good. If my bike ends up being wera V6 legal the following season it will have a turbo since it will only bump me one class :D
 
#55 · (Edited)
Thats a good call i might have to do a little research and testing to really know when the valves start lifting, although i dont think it will be an issue as i dont expect needing more than 15ish PSI. thanks for that little tidbit of info ill let you know how it turns out.

EDIT: I also shouldnt have to deal with RPM induced float as max revs are 8100 stock and i may only rev it out to 9k once built.

z
 
#56 ·
Im not sure what valves or valve springs you have or are planning on running. I think the stock intake valves are in the 35 or36mm dia range. We are talking about 1.75 in^2 per valve so x2 plus the 15psi of pressure on the back of the valve thats an extra 50+lbs of force against the valve springs(25 each). I think its enough(my guess) to hold the valve for even a second. If you do find any issues then shimming the valve springs or upgraded plus getting a hardened valve seat might work out.

any idea what the spring rate is on the stock valve springs?
 
#57 ·
they are actually 37mm and id have to look up the springs but on the stock head and rod i dont expect to do more than 5ish psi. Once i get the major bugs at that worked out ill increase boost but not untill after i change the rod, weld the crank, and do the head with some SS valves springs and see if the head could gain anything from a P&P.

Im still up in the air if i want to get a spare motor to build or just the parts.... most likely ill piece a motor together and build it as you can get a lower end for 500ish and a head and cyl for 400 ish instead of getting the complete motor at 15-1800!!!

z
 
#62 ·
Ive never been a big fan of the gas mask thing. I come from a street fighter background a bit so i see them done all the time. I think that monster would look so much better with a single round 7" headlight.

If you want something different what about the trail tech extreme?



im also a fan of the trail tech X2.

I think this is probably the light i would go with on your xr.

 
#64 ·
I agree that the light output is crap on that last one. I just like the style of it :D

Here is an LED headlight I designed for an alternative fuel MC project that I will build one day.



I have seen some serious output LEDs and this setup has 3 rows to hopefully get a wide pattern from it.

If you already have some HIDs that changes it a bit :lol:
 
#66 ·
I agree that the light output is crap on that last one. I just like the style of it :D

Here is an LED headlight I designed for an alternative fuel MC project that I will build one day.



I have seen some serious output LEDs and this setup has 3 rows to hopefully get a wide pattern from it.

If you already have some HIDs that changes it a bit :lol:
nice, too bad LED hasnt been embraced more yet theres so much capability and they are cheap unless you go to buy them the selling prices dont reflect how cheap LED's are to produce unfortunately.

man love the build. I miss my Xr all the time. Should have never sold it.
thanks Its always nice to see someone appreciating work put into a project.

PDATE: well i was tempted to do the EFI sooner than expected BUT thats not going to happen as the microsquirt v3.0 is not out yet and there is no current projected release so unless i go ahead and use the v2.0 that will have to wait but i have plenty more to do prior as you can tell.

looks like ill be pursuing the gas mask lighting i think it will work out best for this bike.

and why am i typing here i need to go turn some wrenches i got a few new parts to install!

z
 
#67 ·
So i was hoping to have a big update for you guys here but not gonna happen kinda forgot i needed the rest of the front end parts to finish that and haven't finally decided what to do about the wiring situation.... till now or at least half of it.

So for the wiring im going to try and do all the bike wiring together minus engine wiring so they are separate entities for trouble shooting later on. I want to do everything in weather pack connectors so ill have to order a kit and the wires to be sheathed in abrasive sleeving NOT electrical tape that stuff gets soooooo nasty over time.

So most of the front end stuff is ordered monday but wont get here till next monday..... amazing how time gets eaten up by shipping stuff in a project. I usually try to do fazes and have everything on hand when i do them but this project is quickly becoming most of the bike....grrr at least she will be freaking bad ass next spring though lol.

I have started to order EFI parts as well like the TL1000 throttle body i will be using. and trying to track down a ltr450 fuel pump on the cheap...

So off to order the weather pack kit from diyautotune.com and crimpers. and some misc from mcmaster carr. Also keeping an eye out for the s10 gas mask but for time being i have the stock xrr headlight surround ill cut down and use to get the bike ride able before i tear into it over winter. I always like to know things work before i tear into it again so i can trouble shoot small areas if needed not an entire project as that can become excessive.

But for forward momentum this week iv pulled the stator and will attempt a full pole rewire on it to hopefully net me about 200watts. ill update with pics once done.

z
 
#68 ·
GHA! almost forgot i believe i have found a solution to my high CR concern as im going turbo. I will be picking up a subaru ej25 100mm piston once i verify which CR will work best with the xrr's combustion chamber CC to net me about 9/8.7:1 CR when all is said and done. it should net very good results in this full turbo bike build. although through out my research and what i know these components will do.... once built im expecting easily in the 100hp range on pump 93/91.

might have to find someone to build me a new lower rod bearing if the rumors from the sweed are correct about mashing bearing rollers.

z
 
#69 ·
So got a little done on the bike. started the rewind on the stator. here is the stock stator setup as you can see only 4 poles are wound to provide 55w in the US version and 74w in the euro version i can only assume more poles are wrapped in the euro stator. well thanks to the ease of rewinding a stator and the extra poles available to wrap itis said to get 200w out of the setup.



and stripping off the old 4 poles 20g wire in prep to rewind all 10 empty poles with 16g for more current.



and starting the rewrap this is the most difficult part getting the first 10 wraps or so started on the first stator. it probably would have been easier to do clamped in a vice but that day that was not available to me so did it all free hand.



And the completely rewrapped stator ready to re attach the stator wires and epoxy. i havent done that yet as i need to verify the epoxy i want to use. but the stator is completely rewound with 16g magnet wire at 32-34 wraps per pole. i could probably get another 10 wraps if needed giving more voltage but i will see what this setup does first as its what all the xr650r stator rewind threads suggest this or 18g wire the stock setup is 20g wire.



and looks like im going to have some time to work on the bike this week so hoping to get her rolling at the end of the week.

z
 
#210 ·
YOU WRAPPED YOUR OWN STATOR!??!?!?! Hats off for doing that, damn. I would never trust myself to do it right. Hopefully it worked. Trying to read through this thread :clap::clap::clap:
 
#70 · (Edited)
Well being that i like updating this thread makes me think im making progress on the bike heres some things i received today that i wanted to throw on right away but alas work is getting in the way and a cold is whoopin my ass. None the less i am going to continue to whore this thread.

heres the finishing parts for the front end. UFO fender, something or other fork guards, acerbis hand guards, SME bar and universal weld on peg sliders, XR's only magnetic stainless drain bolt and BajaDesigns oil level sight kit, and one TL1000 throttle body set for the future EFI.



although both the sight gauge and drain plug came from XR's i was really looking forward to the oil temp dipstick from them but its out of stock and i expected it from the reviews of XR's only so when you think about the only thing they really had when i ordered was a drain plug?! id have to say all the interwebz reviews of them is just about correct i have no idea if they are still going to ship the temp stick or refund and received no ETA either.... not really impressed.

ANd one other thing i picked up the Delphi weatherpak plug kit. they are a bit bigger than i was expecting but with some careful layout when the harness gets made it shouldnt be a big deal.



thats a quarter for comparison BTW. I also have a line on a possible spare XR motor so i can build it on the side while building the turbo kit and testing on the bike.

z
 
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